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#1
11-21-2007, 10:09 PM
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i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
Pretty important to this hand is that about 2 or 3 hands earlier, I made a big move on a 3way flop where SB donked out, this guy (who had been preflop raiser) raised in MP, I put him on a okay-but-not-great hand and shoved with a draw (well, raised enough to clearly commit everyone's chips). He folded TP and has been chatting to me about the hand annoyedly and even during the preflop portion of the hand below he is telling me why it was a bad play or something. I don't think he's on irate tilt, but he's definitely annoyed, and I figure looking to play back at me. He seems like a decent player from his analysis of the previous hand, other than the part where he folded and is now educating a fish (me).
Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter SB: $83.25 BB: $106 Hero (UTG): $125.65 MP: $51.75 CO: $98.50 BTN: $65.90 Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG) <font color="red">Hero raises to $4</font>, 4 folds, BB calls $3 Flop: ($8.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players) BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $5</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $15</font>, Hero calls $10 Turn: ($38.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $21</font>, BB calls $21 River: ($80.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players) BB checks What's everyone's move on this river? I called the flop assuming he's probably playing back a lot of the time given his chat, then when he calls the turn I figure he actually has something. Effective stacks on river are about $60, a wee bit less than pot sized bet. Issues I face here are that my hand may or may not be face-up to some degree, or at least my hand strength, and obv. the main draw on flop hit. 
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#2
11-21-2007, 10:13 PM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
i think u have to push river for value.
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#3
11-21-2007, 10:31 PM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
Given the general wierd-ness of his line, I think checking through is okay.
He might be looking to river-sexy you all in... and as you said, the draw hit. You can't bet anything on the river that you could fold for a push. I don't think you're missing out on too much value by checking through. I don't think a lot of worse hands call you, and lots of worse or better hands could put you in a bad spot by raising.
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#4
11-21-2007, 10:52 PM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
[ QUOTE ]
Given the general wierd-ness of his line, I think checking through is okay. He might be looking to river-sexy you all in... and as you said, the draw hit. You can't bet anything on the river that you could fold for a push. I don't think you're missing out on too much value by checking through. I don't think a lot of worse hands call you, and lots of worse or better hands could put you in a bad spot by raising. [/ QUOTE ] Hero has less than PSB, he's pushing if he's playing.
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#5
11-21-2007, 11:28 PM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Given the general wierd-ness of his line, I think checking through is okay. He might be looking to river-sexy you all in... and as you said, the draw hit. You can't bet anything on the river that you could fold for a push. I don't think you're missing out on too much value by checking through. I don't think a lot of worse hands call you, and lots of worse or better hands could put you in a bad spot by raising. [/ QUOTE ] Hero has less than PSB, he's pushing if he's playing. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think this is accurate, there is definitely a case for betting a bit smaller to get a call from something like 99 or whatever. But I think you partly mean that if I'm playing, I'm not folding, which is accurate, I don't think there's room for a fold once I make any real bet on the riv here.
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#6
11-21-2007, 11:33 PM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
wtf are you doin on the flop? either 3bet-shove or just fold to the raise. calling oop with A-high, no draw, is terrible in that spot
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#7
11-21-2007, 11:44 PM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
so you called a flop raise w/no pair, you turn a pair, bet it like a wuss, and now you're not sure what to do on the river. this tells me you should have folded to the flop raise.
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#8
11-21-2007, 11:55 PM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
[ QUOTE ]
so you called a flop raise w/no pair, you turn a pair, bet it like a wuss, and now you're not sure what to do on the river. this tells me you should have folded to the flop raise. [/ QUOTE ] I bet the turn to get a raise or at least a call from weak hand. You think just potting the turn here is going to get a good results in any way? Maybe. To me, betting big on this turn is basically letting the opponent play perfectly, unless I have a read that he's a big calling station. As for a river plan, this river isn't a blank, and I'm not going to fold every flop where I don't have a specific plan for when 2 very specific cards (TPTK hits for me, and then flush completes) hit. I mean, you don't see that if the turn is diff, or the river is diff, this hand is insanely easy to play?
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#9
11-22-2007, 12:02 AM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] so you called a flop raise w/no pair, you turn a pair, bet it like a wuss, and now you're not sure what to do on the river. this tells me you should have folded to the flop raise. [/ QUOTE ] I bet the turn to get a raise or at least a call from weak hand. You think just potting the turn here is going to get a good results in any way? Maybe. To me, betting big on this turn is basically letting the opponent play perfectly, unless I have a read that he's a big calling station. As for a river plan, this river isn't a blank, and I'm not going to fold every flop where I don't have a specific plan for when 2 very specific cards (TPTK hits for me, and then flush completes) hit. I mean, you don't see that if the turn is diff, or the river is diff, this hand is insanely easy to play? [/ QUOTE ] most of the time that turn card doesn't change anything. i mean, he's usually not gonna expect you to be calling flop raises w/overcards. on the turn, if he has JJ/TT type of hand, he's gonna call a 3/4 pot bet. if he has a flush draw, he will call as well. our hand still rates to be best at the river, so why not bet and hope he makes a curious call w/a worse hand. also, betting more on the turn makes shoving this river and getting a call much easier.
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#10
11-22-2007, 12:16 AM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] so you called a flop raise w/no pair, you turn a pair, bet it like a wuss, and now you're not sure what to do on the river. this tells me you should have folded to the flop raise. [/ QUOTE ] I bet the turn to get a raise or at least a call from weak hand. You think just potting the turn here is going to get a good results in any way? Maybe. To me, betting big on this turn is basically letting the opponent play perfectly, unless I have a read that he's a big calling station. As for a river plan, this river isn't a blank, and I'm not going to fold every flop where I don't have a specific plan for when 2 very specific cards (TPTK hits for me, and then flush completes) hit. I mean, you don't see that if the turn is diff, or the river is diff, this hand is insanely easy to play? [/ QUOTE ] most of the time that turn card doesn't change anything. i mean, he's usually not gonna expect you to be calling flop raises w/overcards. on the turn, if he has JJ/TT type of hand, he's gonna call a 3/4 pot bet. if he has a flush draw, he will call as well. our hand still rates to be best at the river, so why not bet and hope he makes a curious call w/a worse hand. also, betting more on the turn makes shoving this river and getting a call much easier. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I agree on this, in retrospect I do wish I bet more on the turn, although maybe that's results-oriented, I was probably just thinking too much that he was gonna make a move on me on the turn also or something. Meh. I do think I played this hand bad, I ended up checking the river, I just couldn't see what worse hand could call a shove and I felt like my hand was face up more or less as being pretty strong and ahead of something like 9s or Ts. I think a river check is bad, and curious what the general 2p2 line would be here.
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