a fun 97s hand

[One Outer]

[ QUOTE ]
but one could argue that the pot is going to be large anyway. is the difference between a 12sb pot and an 18sb so large? does the extra 3bb really impact the postflop decision-making so much? we're drawing to two pair anyway. we're drawing to a gutshot anyway. what's the difference REALLY?

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There is no difference. I was just answering a question about Snowball's post.

Or you could say that the difference is winning 5 more SB when you make your hand and losing only 1 extra when you don't. And if you get to show down, your table image, like you said earlier.

That's probably not what you meant though, right? As far as pot odds, you're going to have them whether there's 12 or 18 sb in there.

[Hyperrrprank]

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[ QUOTE ]
but one could argue that the pot is going to be large anyway. is the difference between a 12sb pot and an 18sb so large? does the extra 3bb really impact the postflop decision-making so much? we're drawing to two pair anyway. we're drawing to a gutshot anyway. what's the difference REALLY?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no difference. I was just answering a question about Snowball's post.

Or you could say that the difference is winning 5 more SB when you make your hand and losing only 1 extra when you don't. And if you get to show down, your table image, like you said earlier.

That's probably not what you meant though, right? As far as pot odds, you're going to have them whether there's 12 or 18 sb in there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. If you hit a gutshot you'll have the odds to peel one on the flop almost no matter what. This is not necessarily true on the turn.

The easiest example I can think of is if your gutshot has an out tainted by a 2-flush on the turn. This leaves you 3 outs. If we assume no one folded and each of the 5 players put in one additional bet, and the button (or whoever) bets again on the turn and everyone calls that means the pots look like this:

Smaller Pot: 13.5bb on the turn
Bigger Pot: 16.5bb on the turn

with 3 outs to a gutshot (14.3:1) we can call with our implied odds in either of these situations. If 1 or 2 players folded along the way, however, we can probably get away from our marginal draw in the smaller pot, but there's no chance of that in the bigger one.

[James.]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but one could argue that the pot is going to be large anyway. is the difference between a 12sb pot and an 18sb so large? does the extra 3bb really impact the postflop decision-making so much? we're drawing to two pair anyway. we're drawing to a gutshot anyway. what's the difference REALLY?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no difference. I was just answering a question about Snowball's post.

Or you could say that the difference is winning 5 more SB when you make your hand and losing only 1 extra when you don't. And if you get to show down, your table image, like you said earlier.

That's probably not what you meant though, right? As far as pot odds, you're going to have them whether there's 12 or 18 sb in there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. If you hit a gutshot you'll have the odds to peel one on the flop almost no matter what. This is not necessarily true on the turn.

The easiest example I can think of is if your gutshot has an out tainted by a 2-flush on the turn. This leaves you 3 outs. If we assume no one folded and each of the 5 players put in one additional bet, and the button (or whoever) bets again on the turn and everyone calls that means the pots look like this:

Smaller Pot: 13.5bb on the turn
Bigger Pot: 16.5bb on the turn

with 3 outs to a gutshot (14.3:1) we can call with our implied odds in either of these situations. If 1 or 2 players folded along the way, however, we can probably get away from our marginal draw in the smaller pot, but there's no chance of that in the bigger one.

[/ QUOTE ]

good points Hyper. but if the pot is laying me 13.5 with a gutshot i'm possibly calling 5 handed even with a 2 flush out. you're ignoring the % of the time that the other opponents aren't drawing to the flush, which would might sway the decision to a call. in addition, my implied odds could be adjusted slightly upward because of my position relative to the button and the ability to c/r or c/3b the field if i hit my draw.

more importantly, say there is a 2 flush out there. won't we will likely see multiple bets go in on the flop which would bloat it to the extreme that we can probably call the turn with our 3 outer anyway?

[James.]

snowball and everyone else:

i opened up PT from last night. here's the cast of characters.

EP guy: 52/4/.62(not 38/12)
MP guy: 44/19/1.25(same guy as villain in the AQ hand).
button: at the time an unknown
sb: 38/12/2.24
bb: 39/5/1.15

it's my fault for not just waiting until i got home to post it. sorry i misinformed you guys. the mixup of UTG, sb and button(he turned out to be 18/4 later) changes things.

all i knew was at the time i was thinking, "man, i'm gonna win this every bit of 17% of the time against these jokers; i 3bet". still not sure if its correct, but last night when i stoved it i showed an edge.

so now you guys can stove away and prove me wrong again!

[BadBigBabar]

hey guys,

one time i limped utg with 72o, another guy raised, another guy 3bet, and i !capped! because of my slight equity edge, first guy folded, 3bettor called, flop was 777 and i capped all streets and owned his aa so hard! thoughts/comments? anyone want to stove it?

[Scary_Tiger]

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hey guys,

one time i limped utg with 72o, another guy raised, another guy 3bet, and i !capped! because of my slight equity edge, first guy folded, 3bettor called, flop was 777 and i capped all streets and owned his aa so hard! thoughts/comments? anyone want to stove it?

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If you thought the guy in the middle might fold this is an easy cap.

[Amaryllis]

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hey guys,

one time i limped utg with 72o, another guy raised, another guy 3bet, and i !capped! because of my slight equity edge, first guy folded, 3bettor called, flop was 777 and i capped all streets and owned his aa so hard! thoughts/comments? anyone want to stove it?

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you not raise preflop?

Are you saying OP's post was not interesting? His limp reraise was a mistake, but the post was very thought-provoking to me.

[StrictlyStrategy]

[ QUOTE ]
hey guys,

one time i limped utg with 72o, another guy raised, another guy 3bet, and i !capped! because of my slight equity edge, first guy folded, 3bettor called, flop was 777 and i capped all streets and owned his aa so hard! thoughts/comments? anyone want to stove it?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it looks like Babar, and it sounds like me on meanpills, it's probably ________????

[chesspain]

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Well, we know the preflop is marginal but is that really the point? You're in position, the pot is going to be multiway and you have money to spew.

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FYP

[Dhani]

Wow that was cold