a turn 3bet for your dissection

[James.]

amped up 6 max table. villain in this hand is quite LAGgro. we've had a few run-ins due to our relative position. throughout the session i've noticed him cap the flop HU with a flush draw, checkraise middle pair on the turn and several other similarly aggressive, marginally bad plays. the rest were blind battles where he folded or i folded. don't remember much else.

i open raise on the button with 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], sb folds, LAG(38/21/3.2) calls.

Flop(4.5sb): 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

he checks, i bet, he calls.

Turn(3.25bb): A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

he checks, i bet, he checkraises, and i 3bet.

btw, alot of you should notice this is a pretty good spot for a value check. ignore that option for now since i never repeatedly play the same hands the same ways and i have been "value checking" this guy to death.

[KitCloudkicker]

james: river plan assuming he calls? if he 4 barrels the turn you fold as well, right?

i also assume this was a value 3 bet and not a bluff.

[Sir_Raisealot]

I think your 3-bet is good if this guy is as LAG as you say. I think a LAG (maniac range) would have re-raised you pre-flop with Axo (I have seen several over my time and if this guy is in that ballpark, then he would've), so I wouldn't fear split ace pair. Most likely he's got J6o-ish
hand he is over-playing.

[Fnord]

If he's trying to play well and doesn't hate money, I like it. If he's a showdown monkey or hates money I hate it.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
james: river plan assuming he calls? if he 4 barrels the turn you fold as well, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

check alot of river cards. it was on of the rare occasions i was planning on folding to a 4bet and calling down everything else for the rest of the session. he's the type to fire the flop, fire the turn, but has trouble firing that third barrel.

[ QUOTE ]
i also assume this was a value 3 bet and not a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

ees all aboout value babyyyyy!

[counterspell]

there are a lot of good reasons to 3-bet the turn, but they dont make up for the badness of a line that builds a big pot against a LAG and doesn't get to showdown.

[Gib]

James, are you 3banging cause u believe this guy is on a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] redraw (or maybe a 6), or u think he will fold a better hand?

I'm assuming you'll check behind on a non 7 river if he calls?

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
there are a lot of good reasons to 3-bet the turn, but they dont make up for the badness of a line that builds a big pot against a LAG and doesn't get to showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

while this is a good point, the times i do get 4 bet on the turn(on that board) is going to be infrequent. if i honestly thought i was giving up too much by risking a chance of not showing down, i would take a different route.

**additional disclaimer**- just because, on an internet message board, i say i would fold is more probable to mean i like to *think* i could fold if presented with the situation. there is a chance i might call down anyway if i thought there was a reasonable likelihood villain might cap a hand i beat on that turn.

[StrictlyStrategy]

Will he bet the river if he misses if you just call his CR?

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
Will he bet the river if he misses if you just call his CR?

[/ QUOTE ]

see, this should be the first question asked. if he would, that puts the ball in the court of calling down since we get in 3 bets versus a wide range with less exposure.

the answer is: not always, but sometimes. call it half the time.

even saying that, 3betting turns like this against aggro players can have some meta-effects. it slows them down with their bluffs and semibluffs. it also shows that you can 3bet without the nuts, which is a good thing.