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#11
09-20-2007, 05:19 PM
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Re: Give me a range to push here.
even donks only limp 40% or so, usually, if he calls 70% of that I would want a hand in the top 30% or so myself. Sure we may have thin edge with broader than that, but we dont have much fold equity, we would need to win the hand, and I am sure your the best guy at the table right? so lets preserve some edge... something like top 25-30%, thats something like :
44+,A2s+,K8s+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,A5o+,KTo+,QJo,JTo 4Card 
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#12
09-20-2007, 05:29 PM
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Re: Give me a range to push here.
[ QUOTE ]
even donks only limp 40% or so, usually, if he calls 70% of that I would want a hand in the top 30% or so myself. Sure we may have thin edge with broader than that, but we dont have much fold equity, we would need to win the hand, and I am sure your the best guy at the table right? so lets preserve some edge... something like top 25-30%, thats something like : 44+,A2s+,K8s+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,A5o+,KTo+,QJo,JTo 4Card [/ QUOTE ] Card, Considering I haven't played an MTT in a week and limped with QQ UTG a few hands earlier (and was immediately followed by 4 limpers), best player at table is a stretch [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. Anyway, I had J9s, which I thought was very borderline. I almost shied away from it, I pushed, he snap-called with K10o. Very marginal, IMO, didn't like it afterwards, but I'm slowly starting to see the more nuanced errors of my ways. Barry
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#14
09-20-2007, 05:40 PM
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Re: Give me a range to push here.
[ QUOTE ]
Remember he's not limp calling top 40%, he's limp calling 10-30% normally. A limp is an exclusionary range calculation. [/ QUOTE ] The limper, IMO, is calling a large percent of what he limped with. I'd say you are getting about 150 in FE once you assume he is a "level 1" player (which, judging from the hand I posted about him, seems fairly clear). Barry
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#16
09-20-2007, 10:43 PM
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Re: Give me a range to push here.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Remember he's not limp calling top 40%, he's limp calling 10-30% normally. A limp is an exclusionary range calculation. [/ QUOTE ] The limper, IMO, is calling a large percent of what he limped with. I'd say you are getting about 150 in FE once you assume he is a "level 1" player (which, judging from the hand I posted about him, seems fairly clear). Barry [/ QUOTE ] Not what I meant. What I meant is that you can't apply "limping top 40%" of his hands to his range. You need to subtract his raising range. If he limps 40% of his hands, and raises 11% of them, then the range of his hand is between the top 89% and 60%, discounting a bunch of monsters under the bed.
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#17
09-20-2007, 10:56 PM
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Re: Give me a range to push here.
This is sensible, MJ, but surprisingly when I stove it, it doesn't change the answer very much.
Just going with top 40%, I suggested that KTo would be the minimum shoving hand (which, not to be too results-oriented, turned out to be exactly what villain had). But when I subtract a bunch of stuff from the top of his range, the minimum shoving hand turns out to be QTs, and Barry's shoving range is almost the same. equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 48.571% 46.38% 02.19% 1115069520 52602434.00 { 88-44, A9s-A2s, KTs-K3s, Q5s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, ATo-A4o, KJo-K7o, Q8o+, J9o+, T9o } Hand 1: 51.429% 49.24% 02.19% 1183800428 52602434.00 { QTs }
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#18
09-20-2007, 11:11 PM
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Re: Give me a range to push here.
you leave out so many factors here...
what are the stakes ... $1 buy in or $30+? is this a SNG or a 450 person MTT??? how many players til the $$$? i don't really know what this guy is thinking of pushing for without a premium holding... the guy is horrible and will probably call a wiiiiiide range. take a free flop and wait for a big hand since he has you covered and could stack you, unless u're certain he'll fold to a bet that big... i wouldn't push much... A10s+ (but me personally AQs+), AKo, and probably QQ+...if it was before the $$$, i would have a super tight range and not wanna donk out with 0 equity for my 60 minutes spent to get to 80/160 blinds. after the money bubble, i'd push 77+, AXs, K9s+... and if you really wanna play loose add some big queens that might give you 40/60 equity against a raggy ace or underpair. don't have flopitis... play a pot w/ him... i'd for sure check preflop, lead a half pot value bet and cbet the turn if cold called depending on what fell...and find out where i'm at. 2/3 times he misses the flop anyways..... and you might just save yourself from a horrible bad beat story. like hellmuth, i hate the all-in move w/out the nuts or close to it. is my range toooooo nitty? i don't think so... i either place first or generally don't money at all and i'm usually busted by a a donkey call (when i have the bigger weaker holdings AQ AK etc... .)
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#19
09-20-2007, 11:27 PM
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Re: Give me a range to push here.
[ QUOTE ]
you leave out so many factors here... what are the stakes ... $1 buy in or $30+? is this a SNG or a 450 person MTT??? how many players til the $$$? i don't really know what this guy is thinking of pushing for without a premium holding... the guy is horrible and will probably call a wiiiiiide range. take a free flop and wait for a big hand since he has you covered and could stack you, unless u're certain he'll fold to a bet that big... i wouldn't push much... A10s+ (but me personally AQs+), AKo, and probably QQ+...if it was before the $$$, i would have a super tight range and not wanna donk out with 0 equity for my 60 minutes spent to get to 80/160 blinds. after the money bubble, i'd push 77+, AXs, K9s+... and if you really wanna play loose add some big queens that might give you 40/60 equity against a raggy ace or underpair. don't have flopitis... play a pot w/ him... i'd for sure check preflop, lead a half pot value bet and cbet the turn if cold called depending on what fell...and find out where i'm at. 2/3 times he misses the flop anyways..... and you might just save yourself from a horrible bad beat story. like hellmuth, i hate the all-in move w/out the nuts or close to it. is my range toooooo nitty? i don't think so... i either place first or generally don't money at all and i'm usually busted by a a donkey call (when i have the bigger weaker holdings AQ AK etc... .) [/ QUOTE ] Please provide us with more of your insights and brilliant "win only" strategies.
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