Two hands I play passively

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

I think the peel in #1 is like an 0.15-0.20 BB mistake, unless she checks behind on the turn a LOT (most players don't do this enough), or you're think you might have some +EV bluffing opportunities.

[helpmeout]

I think hand 1 is fine, the pot is pretty big you have 2 backdoors and pair outs against a PP.

I'd call that flop nearly always.

Hand 2 ehh not something I do myself because i always end up having one of the blinds hit their ace and I'd get pissed off.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I think hand 1 is fine, the pot is pretty big you have 2 backdoors and pair outs against a PP.

I'd call that flop nearly always.

Hand 2 ehh not something I do myself because i always end up having one of the blinds hit their ace and I'd get pissed off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've decided that the flop peel in #1 is probably okay. That pot got big with the BB calling cold before the flop. Reverse implied odds are somewhat mitigated by the possibility of getting a free turn.

#2 is burning money though.

[Victor]

i like your play in hand 1 against julie (who sucks imo.)

hand 2, if opponent is actually good, thinking and most importantly disciplined, then you can fold river. but, a lot of mediocre tags will just say [censored] it and bet the whole way with [censored] like 88 even esp when on tilt.

also, about the coldcall, if you are gonna start doing this you need to do it with a variety of hands but you already knew this.

[Kyle]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, this reply is to everyone basically. I'm sorry I made this thread, this might be the first thread I've started here in months and I regret it already. Of course these are non-standard, or "FPS", or whatever you want to call it. I don't post boring hands that I play every day. These are two hands out of the 2400 I played yesterday, its not like this is my standard play with kings preflop.

Ironically, I was one of the posters who didnt like your play and called it FPS [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img], but as always in my next session I remember non-standard lines and think whether they would be apporiate or not, which in turn expands my range of thinking about the game.

So once again thanks for not posting the same old boring hands.

That said, there is some disagreement about the flop peel in hand one. Looking over the replies it looks like there is definitely a majority that thinks its too thin, but a few seem to think its fine, so maybe its not so simply and probably fairly close. For me, I paused for at least 5 seconds before peeling the flop, deciding it was very close. Interestingly, I would have folded if the coldcaller had called the flop (terrified of a slowplay). Anyone have thoughts on whether they would be more or less inclined to peel in that situation?

Second, while I don't want to be that guy that posts something, receives advice, and then totally ignores all of it, I think you guys are putting too much emphasis on the words "defend too often type of guys" which is funny because I only included this as an afterthought while previewing my original post. "Defend too often" guys are going to call closing the action with 73o and K2s and basically lots of crap and maybe in the SB too since they know its going to be 4 ways when I coldcall on the button. In my opinion I'm very happy to have them in the pot with these caliber of hands, which they are certainly going to fold if I 3 bet. All the "defend too often" guys I see tend to close their eyes and call for one more bet preflop but play basically normally when faced with two more bets. Also this play had a lot to do with the caliber of the preflop raiser who I think is a very tough opponent, but maybe some of you disagree with that, I haven't played too much with him. Finally, I think I should find a river fold in this hand, based on the fact that he is a solid player and any coldcalling hand I might hold basically got there, so I'm calling hoping to see exactly QQ/KK? Or maybe he's going to just keeping firing with 88? I don't think so. With a relatively small pot he needs to be out of line too frequently or hold QQ/KK and I think in retrospect I need to let it go.

Results: The results are I lost one of the hands and won the other won.

-DeathDonkey

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Post often come acroos as harsh on here and I have felt the same way you have often when posting. However the bluntness is what makes this board conducive to learning.

Often times here on 2+2 there are long threads where posters are simpily arguing semantics about loose passive, lagtard, peels to much, whatever. Poker is a game of impartial information you had reads in each hand and went with them. What else can you say. Since each hand builds on the previous one it is almost impossible to make an accurate assement of the situation without being there and playing at the table. The ablility to adapt to different situation effectively is what great players do and do better than anyone else.

With that said...

Dont be sorry about starting this thread I know you are a good enough player to have watched the hands in PT and came to the same conculsions that you reached in the above post, but instead you chose to share that info with other players who want to learn. So thank you for posting hands where you take non standard lines. Often times I see players not thinking and taking the same old standard 2+2 lines and getting punished. Whether anyone aggrees with your line or not is besides the point. The important thing is that it generates disscussion which is how we are learn and improve.

[RunDownHouse]

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i like your play in hand 1 against julie (who sucks imo.)

[/ QUOTE ]
She's still on my buddylist from way back in the day at 3/6. Had no idea she was a regular in these games.

[sweetjazz]

Hand #1, I would LOL at the chat after you win with J high.

Hand #2, your hands looks a lot like QJs. Therefore, I believe a good TAG will valuebet QQ and KJ on that river. Because you've underrepresented your hand, I think calling is best on this river. Of course you're going to lose most of the time, but I think you're good about 15-20% of the time here.

[The Bryce]

DD, what's your play in hand 1 if you have a K?

[cartman]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, this reply is to everyone basically. I'm sorry I made this thread, this might be the first thread I've started here in months and I regret it already.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of us know that you are are one of the very best players that posts here. Anyone who looks at this post or any other post of yours and concludes because of something unorthodox or apparently incorrect that you "must not be that good" or something similar is clearly misguided. If I read a comment of yours that is dead opposite of my opinion, my first thought is whether I am missing something.

Likewise if you start a thread and the majority disagrees with you--even overwhelmingly--that doesnt make them right. I think it is perfectly respectable for you to say "I understand your thinking but in my opinion you are all wrong". This forum needs strong player/posters to be successful so please don't let this thread cause you to post less. We don't exactly have any DeathDonkey's to spare.

Cartman

[MATT111]

Not that much to add to hand1. I think the call is close but EV+ especially as many villains will give you a free look at the river with a variety of holdings.

Hand 2 I dislike. I think it is much better to play this hand in a 7SB pot HU than an 8 SB pot 4-way.