moving up from 10$ to 20$ HU SnG

[vodoo]

hi guys,

i was thinking about moving up.

I am 4-tabling HU SnGs (10+0.5$)at the moment.

And i was really crushing them.

So do you think that the 20 s are harder?

Because it was really easy to move up from the 5$ to the 10$.

i have about 1600$ in my br so im rolled for them already.

Is it still possible to be a winner @ the 20s by playing solid, not bluffing much and playing sth like ABC Poker?

[ChicagoRy]

You can be a winner in the 55s doing that. There are a lot of rockish players with solid winrates in the 33s and 55s. I would venture to guess that almost every sharkscope avg profit leader in the 33s is a rock, the 4-5 I played were.

Bluffing is like a sin in the 6-33s, you really have to find the right guy and the right spot, it also hurts that bluffing is a lot harder than other skills in HUSNGs (such as value betting or c-betting). I really didn't have noticeable success with bluffing until reached the 55s, partly due to my skill level but very much due to the players in general. I still don't bluff a majority of players very often.

[vodoo]

[ QUOTE ]
You can be a winner in the 55s doing that. There are a lot of rockish players with solid winrates in the 33s and 55s. I would venture to guess that almost every sharkscope avg profit leader in the 33s is a rock, the 4-5 I played were.

Bluffing is like a sin in the 6-33s, you really have to find the right guy and the right spot, it also hurts that bluffing is a lot harder than other skills in HUSNGs (such as value betting or c-betting). I really didn't have noticeable success with bluffing until reached the 55s, partly due to my skill level but very much due to the players in general. I still don't bluff a majority of players very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you dont think that i might get problems.

I really think that i can easyly beat them.

And its not that im not bluffing, i am still sometimes using my tight-aggresive image to take down some pots.

So do you think that it is really possible to beat the 33s just by playing solid?

I heard that it is really getting harder at the 50$ level, do you think thats true?

thx

[ChicagoRy]

Biggest jump for me was 33-110 (I didn't really play many 55s, maybe 75-100). But the 55s are definitely way closer to the 110s than 33s as far as skill level. The 22s and 33s are pretty close together. Little more of a gap in the 11s and 22s, you start to see people actually somewhat know what they are doing or following a general strategy besides random shoves preflop and calling 3 with 8 high or something. Value betting and letting people stack off very light are the keys in the 22s and 33s IMO, there's a tornado warning so I'll post more later.

[vodoo]

[ QUOTE ]
Biggest jump for me was 33-110 (I didn't really play many 55s, maybe 75-100). But the 55s are definitely way closer to the 110s than 33s as far as skill level. The 22s and 33s are pretty close together. Little more of a gap in the 11s and 22s, you start to see people actually somewhat know what they are doing or following a general strategy besides random shoves preflop and calling 3 with 8 high or something. Value betting and letting people stack off very light are the keys in the 22s and 33s IMO, there's a tornado warning so I'll post more later.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting.
I hope that you explain your last sentence sometimes because i dont really get it.

What do you mean with "letting people stack off very light"?

[TNixon]

Lots of people at lower limits (or even lots of bad players at higher limits) will stack off with top pair bad kicker, second pair, or even worse.

Somehow these people get access to more of my money than I really think they have a right to, but I still appreciate their wholehearted attempts to give me all their chips.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[vodoo]

[ QUOTE ]
Lots of people at lower limits (or even lots of bad players at higher limits) will stack off with top pair bad kicker, second pair, or even worse.

Somehow these people get access to more of my money than I really think they have a right to, but I still appreciate their wholehearted attempts to give me all their chips.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

i often see people calling down with top pair and its really easy to stack them with an overpair.

Well, i dont see people calling with second pair, but i often check/call with a set or with 2 pair because people bluff the turn so often.
I think this whole kicker thing is really easy to exploit,it is really a fact that people NEVer ever fold top pair.

I think i will go like this: i play 3 tables 10$ SnGs just like i do now and then i put one additionally 20$ SnGs to them.

Thx for your responses, really helped me a lot.

[TNixon]

[ QUOTE ]
i often see people calling down with top pair and its really easy to stack them with an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]
That is exactly what he meant by "let them stack off light".

And I see people call big bets (not necessarily all-in, but near pot-sized bets on multiple streets) with second or third pair all the time, as well as people who will shove with second pair on the flop.

Be *very* careful with this, though, especially as you get higher. Not every opponent you play is willing to stack off light, and if you're wrong about the type of opponent you're playing, it's easy to get your chips in drawing extremely thin, if not completely dead.

[ChicagoRy]

I mean more of you raise AJ preflop, flop is J62 rainbow. You c-bet and they raise, you shove and they call with like K6. I saw a lot of that sort of stuff in the 22s and 33s. I really tightened up my game at these two levels. People became more predictable which is a refreshing change of pace to the chaos that is the 6s and 11s (at the time I wasn't as comfortable playing total maniacs, like most people at the lower levels).

Edit: Another thing I recall when I started playing... there was a thread or two and the discussion came up about not stacking off with top pair weak kicker... I think it was cwar that said he needs a good reason not to stack off with top pair, and I agree with that in a lot of the levels.

[boardertj]

vodoo, what was your winrate while 4tabling the 10s?