Straight flush mucked at 200nl Foxwoods?

[MRBAA]

Oh no, cards speak. SF wins. The player who spoke up should shut up, but that's life.

[KenProspero]

Right -- If I'm the floor,I ask the dealer whether the cards were mucked. If the dealer can't say he/she thought cards were mucked, I regretfully rule that they were live (unless I can determine otherwise myself from the position of the cards on the table).

Let's change the facts a little -- Villian turns the cards face up and says "I guess you have me." Before anyone says anything or the dealer moves the chips, he says -- "Wait, I have a straight flush, I call" Under these facts, I think its a live hand. The fact that a Jerk spoke up doesn't change this.

So, we need to determine whether the actions constitute a muck, and the dealer is the best person to do this.

[*TT*]

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"Villain, after tanking for minutes (at a live tbl mind you) turns up 35h in front of his stack and across the line on the table"

I don't see where OP described tossing his cards forward. Regardless, can't the call be made as long as villian never clearly folded? Is the floor going to rule that his statement about "had you to the river" constitutes a fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Imagine looking down at a full ring table from above. Within the green felt there is a ring which separates the middle of the table with the area the players divide up depending on their seat pos (and behind each cupholder at Foxwoods anyways) to stack their chips and keep their cards. Villain had turned his hand face up over the line where cards in play are kept (in front of the players) and into the area where the pot and muck are.

[/ QUOTE ]

The ring is not magical. Crossing the line does not determine a bet, raise or fold. The ring is there to help determine the action, but it is not the exclusive factor. Sorry you lost, that would put me on tilt if I were you but I would also know that the floor ruled correctly.

[0524432]

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
"Villain, after tanking for minutes (at a live tbl mind you) turns up 35h in front of his stack and across the line on the table"

I don't see where OP described tossing his cards forward. Regardless, can't the call be made as long as villian never clearly folded? Is the floor going to rule that his statement about "had you to the river" constitutes a fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Imagine looking down at a full ring table from above. Within the green felt there is a ring which separates the middle of the table with the area the players divide up depending on their seat pos (and behind each cupholder at Foxwoods anyways) to stack their chips and keep their cards. Villain had turned his hand face up over the line where cards in play are kept (in front of the players) and into the area where the pot and muck are.

[/ QUOTE ]

The ring is not magical. Crossing the line does not determine a bet, raise or fold. The ring is there to help determine the action, but it is not the exclusive factor.

[/ QUOTE ]

merely describing the scenario better for readers, not giving my input

[AngusThermopyle]

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<u>turns up</u> 35h <u>in front of his stack</u> and <u>across the line on the table</u>

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This really doesn't seem to be 'tossed his cards face up toward the muck'

[0524432]

[ QUOTE ]
Right -- If I'm the floor,I ask the dealer whether the cards were mucked. If the dealer can't say he/she thought cards were mucked, I regretfully rule that they were live (unless I can determine otherwise myself from the position of the cards on the table).

[/ QUOTE ]

once the muppet had opened his mouth about the SF, villain pulled his hand back behind his chips, btw

[Pscam10]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Villain, after tanking for minutes (at a live tbl mind you) turns up 35h in front of his stack and across the line on the table"

I don't see where OP described tossing his cards forward. Regardless, can't the call be made as long as villian never clearly folded? Is the floor going to rule that his statement about "had you to the river" constitutes a fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Imagine looking down at a full ring table from above. Within the green felt there is a ring which separates the middle of the table with the area the players divide up depending on their seat pos (and behind each cupholder at Foxwoods anyways) to stack their chips and keep their cards. Villain had turned his hand face up over the line where cards in play are kept (in front of the players) and into the area where the pot and muck are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Understood, and pretty standard at most newer tables (fwiw, i've played at FW's before)

I still say the hand is live and villain wins. Unfortunately, the lady spoke up and hero got screwed. TT pretty much confirmed this is the correct ruling.

[0524432]

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<u>turns up</u> 35h <u>in front of his stack</u> and <u>across the line on the table</u>

[/ QUOTE ]

This really doesn't seem to be 'tossed his cards face up toward the muck'

[/ QUOTE ]

How so? Villain was in seat 2 and extremely close to the muck. Are you kidding?

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Right -- If I'm the floor,I ask the dealer whether the cards were mucked. If the dealer can't say he/she thought cards were mucked, I regretfully rule that they were live (unless I can determine otherwise myself from the position of the cards on the table).

[/ QUOTE ]

once the muppet had opened his mouth about the SF, villain pulled his hand back behind his chips, btw

[/ QUOTE ]

that doesnt make it a string bet, this is heads up.

see this thread or Roberts Rules of Poker for more details.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero becomes furious, claiming nobody turns their cards up over the line at the table and says anything like "I had you til the [censored] river" when they're are going to be calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

You took your fury out on the wrong person. Unless you really want to just win a pot on a technicality. The guy to be pissed at is the showdown mope.

It sucks that it happened, but let it go. I'd be more concerned with making sure the idiot knows to shut his yap when not in a hand.

b