Sniper

[NT!]

nation,

he's only been asked four or five times, so maybe he just missed it? i mean he's been reading over a LOT of posts.

[EMc]

What if we place sniper on some sort of probation for a month or 2. He renains a mod but if he miss steps, hes done. Give him another chance.

[NT!]

[ QUOTE ]
What if we place sniper on some sort of probation for a month or 2. He renains a mod but if he miss steps, hes done. Give him another chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

what if we wait and see if he knows how to answer more than one question a week before we start giving in to his assinine behavior thus far

[Berge20]

This whole process is rediculous

You guys clammored for a response and he gave you one. He basically said "you are right, I was wrong" but of course that's not enough. Now you want details on how he'll mod in the future, which is impossible to do completely out of any context. Not that I'm even convinced that anything he says will make people satisfied.

You guys act like you've never made any mistakes in your modding during the past 6 months. I think all three choices were bad ones and I hope that I wouldn't make the same errors, but at the same time I hope that when I do make "an error" that I'm not witch-hunted like this.

Some of you don't think his other contributions should matter at all in this process. I completely disagree. Other contributions to 2+2 show a committment to the betterment of the site as a whole and indicate to me a willingness to learn and grow for that end.

Then there's this whole issue of timely response, which to me is a clear indication of the excessive zeal in this spot.

Nothing I say is going to change what people think, but it needed to be said.

[nation]

berge,

i have no problems with sniper aside from the degen issue. he has stated that he made a mistake, which is fine. but he has consistently dodged my question of whether he gave info to degen about the mod forum. i really don't care whether degen is angry at me or not, but the fact that he got the info is messed up.

[JaredL]

[ QUOTE ]
This whole process is rediculous

You guys clammored for a response and he gave you one. He basically said "you are right, I was wrong" but of course that's not enough. Now you want details on how he'll mod in the future, which is impossible to do completely out of any context. Not that I'm even convinced that anything he says will make people satisfied.

You guys act like you've never made any mistakes in your modding during the past 6 months. I think all three choices were bad ones and I hope that I wouldn't make the same errors, but at the same time I hope that when I do make "an error" that I'm not witch-hunted like this.

Some of you don't think his other contributions should matter at all in this process. I completely disagree. Other contributions to 2+2 show a committment to the betterment of the site as a whole and indicate to me a willingness to learn and grow for that end.

Then there's this whole issue of timely response, which to me is a clear indication of the excessive zeal in this spot.

Nothing I say is going to change what people think, but it needed to be said.

[/ QUOTE ]

The main problem with Sniper is not the completely ridiculous and bizarre mod decisions, but that he doesn't listen to logic, makes arguments that are completely idiotic, never budges, misquotes Mat and Ryan to further his own stuff, etc. Also as noted by someone he is always the quickest to wag his finger at others that don't follow whatever rules or procedures have been in place. Often in these cases he's in the wrong. In general he adds a lot of noise and makes it more difficult to give and get feedback in this forum.

He didn't make mistakes in these cases, they just exposed his standard operating procedure. Like others, I have made mistakes. Like everyone but sniper, my errors were rectified quickly and nothing came of it because I was able to admit that I had made a mistake and hashed it out with Ryan.

Sniper in the past has shown that he will say whatever it takes to further his aims and protect his ass. With Degen he made a lot of arguments for degen because he was a poster in the finance forum. When that didn't fly he moved on to the argument that degen was an advertiser so it was more complicated. In the other thread, Mat made a post saying that he really wanted Sniper's input. When daryn noted that he hadn't posted yet, sniper claimed that he had been busy outside 2+2. When it was demonstrated that this was false, he claimed that he had been busy reading thousands of posts in the mod forum to review the situation.

The examples above are just a couple that obviously recently come to mind. In both cases we have sniper simply saying what is necesary to cover his own ass or further his own personal situation, even if at odds with the good of the forums at large. In the OP of this thread, he has basically done more of the same. He had to admit that what he'd done is wrong. He pointed to a few things that are 100% obviously wrong.

When someone is in a situation where they HAVE to apologize and they do, I don't see what has changed as a result. As I said, the problem isn't the specific things he claimed were wrong actions on his part, it's more general.

Jared

[NT!]

berge, yeah, he basically said, 'you guys were right, i was wrong.' that was a given. that was said by pretty much everyone involved MONTHS ago. the problem is that he made us wait the better part of a week for it, and despite the length of his response, he didn't say anything else. he didn't answer the question of whether he has shared mod forum info (which is sweet, hilarious, too good to be true irony). he didn't say anything about what he would do differently, or why he has never admitted that he was wrong in the past, or why he couldn't make resolving this issue a priority while he was making posts in three other forums all weekend.

so yeah, you're right, nothing he said was likely to change my mind, and i put that out there from the beginning. i make no apology for that. i also said right from the start that sniper would wait until it was absolutely clear he had to apologize, and he would only do it to save his ass from beign degreened. was i wrong?

he made the one post he absolutely had to make, and now he's going to go on giving his 'colleagues' the silent treatment, hoping it will all blow over.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
sniper,

did you or did you not give degen information from the mod forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nation, the short answer, is no.

Here is what I do know:

1. There have been many cases of Mod forum information being shared outside the Mod forum

2. It has always been my belief, that specific discussions in the Mod forum are private, like PMs and AIM conversations

3. Degen has been talking to several mods, I do not know who they are, with the exception of morgant, Pokeraddict, ElD and a couple of the other mods that mentioned knowing him personally, or otherwise interacting with him.

4. Degen is aware that I have defended him in the past

5. He's also received specific advice from me to clean up his act in the forums, based on my reading of his posts. Some issues that were raised in the mod forum, and some that were not.

6. He obviously, could not consistantly follow my advice to him, Although he did stay pretty clean for a part of last year (as morgant pointed out).

7. He has said nothing to me to indicate he is aware of what specific mods have posted. I think this is clear from the rediculous PMs he sent to some of the moderators.


Edit - Oh, I believe Degen is on vacation and does not yet know that he is banned. I have however, already been contacted by another active MMB poster, who also follows A/R discussion, who read PA's post there and wanted to know what was going on.

[Berge20]

[ QUOTE ]

In the other thread, Mat made a post saying that he really wanted Sniper's input. When daryn noted that he hadn't posted yet, sniper claimed that he had been busy outside 2+2. When it was demonstrated that this was false, he claimed that he had been busy reading thousands of posts in the mod forum to review the situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, to me this just really sums up the totally different view point I am coming from. You bump a ~3 month old post on Wednesday, which originally asked Mods to comment on Sniper's problems. I didn't see it until about 24 hours later and it seemed to me that we were rehashing old stuff again. Then over two days it turned into what I view as a lynch mob until Mat started the new thread late Friday.

I don't know when Sniper read both threads. It took me a fricken hour to go back through the first one (and links) just to get a better feel for what all the ruckuss was about after I originally saw it and then made time to go back.

There are tons of times I'm posting/browsing 2+2 but don't visit this forum. I try to get in here and to ATF when I can, but it doesn't always happen. Maybe that's what was going on with Sniper this week with the original post and then with the new one this weekend.

You guys are so frothing at the mouth that you are having zero patience. How you expect to make thoughtful decisions when in that state is beyond me. The guy took less than 48 hours to make his post after Mat essentially asked him to and maybe even less in reality from when he saw it. Plus he PM'd Mat about putting together a lengthy and detailed response earlier.

Nation's post in Sniper's response thread just sums up this lack of patience IMO.

7:19
[ QUOTE ]
sniper,

did you or did you not give degen information from the mod forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

7:24
[ QUOTE ]

if he doesn't squash this today, there should be zero chance of him being green at the end of today. im tired of these games.

[/ QUOTE ]

7:35
[ QUOTE ]
what the [censored], there is no excuse for this delay. sniper is deliberately dodging my question about leaking mod forum info to degen. i feel like i'm taking crazy pills.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heaven forbid somone steps away from the discussion for 15 minutes. Sure, it's a legitimate question that Sniper should answer, but this sort of mentality is all I've seen since Wendesday.

Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way, but I find this amazing. You guys won't be happy with anything short of his removal and this entire process is not the thoughtful, correct way to go about it IMO.

[nation]

berge,

sniper just dropped his apology on the mod forum. you really think its not weird that instead of reading and responding for a bit, he takes off until now? if someone was talking about degreening me, i wouldnt just take off especially when i knew i was getting flak from people for leaving the discussion already.