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  #1  
Old 11-25-2007, 05:52 PM
daveT daveT is offline
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Default TT, lets doge a bullet. sng

This game is not very fun, basically raise, steal, etc. We have yet to make it to show down, and have not see nmany flops. So......

I think my opponent is running card dead. I had him down, but I just made a loose pf call to only see a bunch of Broadways.

Full Tilt (2 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

hero (1585)
villain (1415)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Button posts a blind of 20.
<font color="#CC3333">Button (poster) raises to 120</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to 440</font>, Button calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
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  #2  
Old 11-25-2007, 08:36 PM
jool jool is offline
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Default Re: TT, lets doge a bullet. sng

Don't love the PFR size for exactly this reason. Real tough to manipulate opponent now. Would need to know how often opponent has been calling 3-bets and c-bets to make an informed decision. As played w/ info at hand, I'd probably puke and CRAI/call all in? I don't know. Gross spot. If you lead out for a c-bet you get probably nothing that beats you to fold except JJ maybe, and everything you beat presumably folds.

I'm leaning towards this action, btw, because your non-push PF suggests that he can call w/ a somewhat weaker hand. If that's a wrong assumption then maybe c-fold? That seems just totally awful though. I don't know. Gross.
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2007, 07:45 AM
ok2aa ok2aa is offline
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Default Re: TT, lets doge a bullet. sng

bet 425/fold?

has he been calling 3 bets before/what has he been calling with?

the other option is to tank/check and see what he does. prolly call a smallish bet and try to show it down.
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  #4  
Old 11-27-2007, 01:11 PM
abcjnich abcjnich is offline
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Default Re: TT, lets doge a bullet. sng

3bet size is bad. Calling, 3betting less, or 3betting way more are all better options. There's not much difference in b/f 400 or c/f. i probably just c/f.
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  #5  
Old 11-28-2007, 04:44 AM
MxGucci MxGucci is offline
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Default Re: TT, lets doge a bullet. sng

This is a very very tough situation. I would most likely puke. If you shove, like JOOL said he is not going to fold anything that is beating you, so its a gamble at this point. You can hope to get this pot checked down, or bet out weak and hope he calls you down. I tend to bet out weak in hopes of scaring my opponent, but thats because I am a donkey.
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  #6  
Old 11-28-2007, 12:06 PM
devin mac devin mac is offline
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Default Re: TT, lets doge a bullet. sng

yeah, i think i agree that the 3-bet size kinda screams you have a mid pair you don't want to play a flop with. sounds like an agressive villain who's going to bet it pretty hard if you check, and probably isn't calling a shove with anything you are ahead of either.

if you feel like you can play well at a 2:1 chip disadvantage against a really aggressive player, check/fold. if not, i don't think a shove here is that bad, since if you bet/fold you're really crippled against a guy that's likely going to pummel you relentlessly with his new stack. MAYBE you're lucky enough that he'd fold a Q to a shove here, based on your preflop action, but i think i see a snap-call with any decent Q or K, in which case, you have some long-shot draws to suck out on him.

as has been said, gross spot to be in, and gross squared flop for tens...
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:37 PM
brooksideboy brooksideboy is offline
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Default Re: TT, lets doge a bullet. sng

I would bet ~250 here. You have to bet this (right?) and pushing maybe is good against a Q, but sucks against anything else.
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:30 PM
Somekid Somekid is offline
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Default Re: TT, lets doge a bullet. sng

Ugh, I hate spots like this. They make me just want to shove TT PF (which I know is not optimal). I generally 3-bet here to something like 360, but it has about the same result as this hand: I end up with a scary board and have to c/f.

Perhaps a better play (against a loose opponent) is to raise PF to 600 and shove any flop. Well, maybe not AKQs, but almost any flop.
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:38 PM
daveT daveT is offline
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Default Re: TT, lets doge a bullet. sng

Before I reveal what happened on the flop, I would like to discuss the PF raise.

I do agree that it was not a good raise. My intention was to raise so large that he would likely shove if I was beat or call if he needed to draw. I was thinking the shove range here was AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK, maybe AQ, AJ. But I doubt that he is calling with AJ. I think he would likely fold that, but I am not sure. Don't ask why I think this. I only present it for the purposes of showing my thinking, which I admit is probably wrong.

What is a good PF raise size vs a tight opponent?
Is this a hand that you would be willing to commit to showdown if he flat calls PF?
I don't think that shoving is good. I don't think I am ahead of his calling range. But that is up for debate as well.
If I raise smaller, get flat-called, what would you think then?
If I raise smaller, and he re-raised, I would likely flat call and set-mine, depending on how large the raise was. I would probably fold to a shove, tbh.
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:53 PM
Somekid Somekid is offline
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Default Re: TT, lets doge a bullet. sng

Well, I don't think shoving is great either, but I think it's still +EV. You're not ahead of his calling range, but he folds enough of the time to make shoving worthwhile.

(EDIT)As far as the other questions: I need to think about it some more. I think this is one of the toughest spots in HU SNGs.
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