I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall

guitarizt · #1 10-22-2007, 02:03 AM

These are my hands since Aug 1. I play a standard 18/13/4 game. I've watched a ton of 2+2 and cr videos of people playing cash, some multiple times. It's really embarrassing that I've spent so much time studying 25nl but my results still suck.

My question is, where should I go from here? Should I keep playing more hands? Maybe try playing without pahud up? I feel like I'm better than a lot of people at the 25nl level but I seem to just not be able to figure it out. I want to get some advice before I just blindly play another 25k hands.

PLOlover · #2 10-22-2007, 02:19 AM

post how much rake you've paid and how much rakeback or fpps .

just curious

BlueBear · #3 10-22-2007, 02:34 AM

You probably have a leak, without realising it.

You could post your stats too and hands that trouble you in the micro-stakes forum...

guitarizt · #4 10-22-2007, 09:49 AM

Total rake is about 450 with 30% rb for $135, but I get about 1 ptbb / 100 hands from my bonus. I mean at this point it's not even about the money.

I've posted my stats by position in the micro forum twice, once in the wrong place but no one responded constructively to either. I can understand why a lot of micro players don't get too much attention since everyone else has the same problem, but I've been a winning player at everything else I've played.

I just got a coach to see if there are crazy things I'm doing that aren't right.

Henry17 · #5 10-22-2007, 10:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
but I've been a winning player at everything else I've played.

[/ QUOTE ]

So why not just play the stuff that makes you money?

SnglMaltScotch · #6 10-22-2007, 10:47 AM

Am I missing something or do you have CRAZY swings for a 18/13.
+14 BI 4K hands
-10BIs in 6K hands
+16BIs in 6K hands
-14BIs in 10K hands.

Wow.. That seems really strange. I haven't played 6 million hands like many people here, but I have never had swings like this and I am 22/17. I am going to guess that your leaks are postflop. The best way to start is to post screen shot/hands in the micro's.

Good Luck
SMS

guitarizt · #7 10-22-2007, 12:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but I've been a winning player at everything else I've played.

[/ QUOTE ]

So why not just play the stuff that makes you money?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I'm sick and I want to learn cash and 25nl shouldn't be this hard. It got pretty bad this last weekend though I played a few hundred hu cash hands just to get my confidence back.

djshawk · #8 10-23-2007, 11:53 AM

Which site are you playing at out of interest?

Those swings suggest you are playing a pretty high variance game - happy to get involved in coinflips etc.

Do you push AK preflop very often? QQ?
Do you get it all in on the flop with a flush draw often?

A lot of the advice in the unl/ssnl is turbo aggressive and I think you need to take a lot of what is said with a grain of salt. If you are playing in tighter games then you need to look to making money by raising more preflop and stealing more blinds, 3 betting more etc. If you are playing looser games then IMO doing this is bad because you are investing money to steal pots which you can't really steal. This is just IMO and I may be wrong but I can't imagine playing a 24/20 game when I've got 3 40-50/10-20 type players at the table.

Another thing, do you use much pot control when you have tptk type hands? For example with AJ on a AT4 flop would you bet flop/turn/river or would you sometimes check turn or river?

Do you cbet too much / not enough?

Can you fold AA/KK post flop?

My 30nl graph looked pretty similar to what you posted, up around 5 buyins, back down to even, up a bit, breakeven a bit, down a bit but after about 10k hands it kind of stopped swinging all over the place and took a steady line up.

When I moved to 50nl it looked pretty similar again, swingy breakeven for 5-10k hands, then I'd run hot for 2-3k hands, then breakeven/swingy for a bit then run hot again.

This may sound dumb but it looks like you are good at winning pots, there are lots of lines moving in the right direction. The problem is there are also too many lines in the wrong direction which suggests you are sticking around too long in pots you aren't going to win.

I think the best thing for you to do is go through PT and look at all the hands where you lost more than say 30-40bb and see if you think you played the hands right. You may see a pattern, ie, there are loads of hands where you pushed draws and missed. If this is the case see if you could play the hand any other way that means losing less when your draw doesn't hit. You don't always have to play every draw to the river or super aggressively.
You may find that you have a lot of top pair type hands that run into sets/2 pair. Could you slow down or get away from these hands earlier? If somebody is calling 3 streets then they will usually have something worth showing down.

Hope none of this comes accross as patronising, it sounds like you know your game, positionally aware etc. I'm just throwing ideas around in the hope something will ring true and help you find a problem with your game.

hallo! · #9 10-23-2007, 02:13 PM

I also have the feeling that not I play Poker but the variance plays me [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

#10 10-27-2007, 06:28 PM

Please post your stats again, not positional. general PT stats. I was struggling for 2 month myself after having a huge downswing at 100NL. Maybe I can help. 27k hands is a small sample and could be variance. You should be crushing 25NL with 18/13/4, but maybe you have some postflop leaks.

Below is my graph since July. After running bad, I went on tilt and played suboptimal. changing my game, getting nittier, less aggro, giving up to fast postflop, playing predictibel etc ... wich resulted in loosing.