B&M River Ruling

Frond · #1 05-02-2007, 05:41 PM

B&M 4/8 LHE game. Entire hand not important but by the time the turn hits in this multi way hand, I had an OESD in good position. All bets were made, Dealer burns and starts to flip over the river card but it kind of pops out of her hand and lands on the floor about 2 feet from my feet in the #1 seat. I look down at the card, one guy asks what it is and I say that it is the 5 of hearts. This is the exact card I was hoping for cause it completed my straight. The floor is called over to decide what to do. Nobody has yet touched the card since it has fallen. The floor person picks it up and nicely says that it is still the river card and puts in on the board. Everyone is okay with that esp me. It is checked around to me in the CO but some guy thought that I had checked as well and almost turns over his cards. I said that I haven't yet acted and I bet. He calls and I won the large pot.

Q-Is this ruling a standard one or when a card like this hits the floor is it dead? Never seeen it before so just wondering. I'm glad of the ruling [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Spota · #2 05-02-2007, 06:08 PM

In my home game this is exactly what we would have done. In a B&M I can see where the ruling would be any card that touches the floor is shuffled back in the deck.

bernie · #3 05-02-2007, 06:32 PM

In my room, you had to have a floor pick it up for it to still play. But now they usually just rule any card that hits the floor dead.

Note: Now that I think about it, the dead card ruling might pertain more to bigger rooms.

b

bernie · #4 05-02-2007, 06:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In a B&M I can see where the ruling would be any card that touches the floor is shuffled back in the deck.

[/ QUOTE ]

In B&M, any card touching the floor(out of sight of the dealer) is usually heavily scrutinized.

The only time I've seen it go back in the deck is an early burn and turn, but not when a card leaves the table.

b

Frond · #5 05-03-2007, 12:13 AM

This was a strange deal. I thought for sure that it would be ruled a dead card by the floor guy. He said, "this is the river card eh, well, it still is the river card" and it played. Nobody contested it at all which I thought a bit odd.

steamboatin · #6 05-03-2007, 09:15 AM

That card would be ruled dead at Caesar's IN.

PantsOnFire · #7 05-03-2007, 11:12 AM

Why would a dealt river (or turn or flop) card hitting the floor be ruled dead?

What possible scenario is there for a player to take advantage of this?

If you drop your hole cards on the floor, they still play. If you happen to have a deck of cards in your back pocket, then giving yourself a new hole card would be a whole bunch easier than waiting for dealer to fling a river card onto the floor.

I don't get this one?

Frond · #8 05-03-2007, 11:14 AM

Not sure why I thought it would be dead I just figured it would. Several people saw what the was card including the dealer. Maybe if someone else not at the table touched it? Not sure

TMTTR · #9 05-03-2007, 11:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why would a dealt river (or turn or flop) card hitting the floor be ruled dead?

[/ QUOTE ]

As I understand it: A card that goes off the table is out of sight of the dealer (and any cameras). Thus, there is an opportunity for someone to cheat, i.e., change the card. While this is highly unlikely to happen, if a card off the table was not dead, it would give dishonest players and dealers a means of manipulating the deck.

PantsOnFire · #10 05-03-2007, 12:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why would a dealt river (or turn or flop) card hitting the floor be ruled dead?

[/ QUOTE ]

As I understand it: A card that goes off the table is out of sight of the dealer (and any cameras). Thus, there is an opportunity for someone to cheat, i.e., change the card. While this is highly unlikely to happen, if a card off the table was not dead, it would give dishonest players and dealers a means of manipulating the deck.

[/ QUOTE ]
Robert's Rules states that a card in a player's hand that hits the floor does not make his hand dead. If some were to cheat, this would be the way to do it since a dealer flicking a card off the table is so rare. I mean you'd really have to be prepared for that.

I don't know, it just seems strange to me. And like the OP situation, if my draw came and landed face up and everybody could see it (or even face down), I'd be pretty pissed if it was declared dead.