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#21
07-30-2007, 08:43 AM
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Re: NL50 AJ on AQJ flop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 3bet is good. [/ QUOTE ] Posts like this are pointless, especially given the discussion on the 3bet. At least say why. [/ QUOTE ] well do you at least agree with me now that 3betting is no good? [/ QUOTE ] No i dont agree. If you call 2 out of 3 times you miss and have to fold, even though you may still have the best hand. When you do hit you may still be dominated and lose a sizeable pot anyway. Reverse implied odds a go-go. Playing hit to win with AJ is bad IMO. If villian is tight when calling 3 bets then great we win the pot straight away most times. If he is prepared to just call with AQ, AK then we can take the pot away from him easily with position when we both miss. If he calls just to set mine, again we take the pot away from him on most flops. If he 4 bets we fold a hand that was likely crushed losing less than we would have if we'd just called and got caught up on a ace high flop against his AK. Most good TAGS would not be calling here IMO. 
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#22
07-30-2007, 09:08 AM
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Re: NL50 AJ on AQJ flop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 3bet is good. [/ QUOTE ] Posts like this are pointless, especially given the discussion on the 3bet. At least say why. [/ QUOTE ] well do you at least agree with me now that 3betting is no good? [/ QUOTE ] No i dont agree. If you call 2 out of 3 times you miss and have to fold, even though you may still have the best hand. When you do hit you may still be dominated and lose a sizeable pot anyway. Reverse implied odds a go-go. Playing hit to win with AJ is bad IMO. If villian is tight when calling 3 bets then great we win the pot straight away most times. If he is prepared to just call with AQ, AK then we can take the pot away from him easily with position when we both miss. If he calls just to set mine, again we take the pot away from him on most flops. If he 4 bets we fold a hand that was likely crushed losing less than we would have if we'd just called and got caught up on a ace high flop against his AK. Most good TAGS would not be calling here IMO. [/ QUOTE ] dude your way off here, just reread what you said!
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#23
07-30-2007, 09:12 AM
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Re: NL50 AJ on AQJ flop
dude your way off here, just reread what you said! [/ QUOTE ] I did, it makes sense. If you dont 3 bet here then your not 3 betting enough. Folding is better than calling.
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#24
07-30-2007, 09:14 AM
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Re: NL50 AJ on AQJ flop
[ QUOTE ]
dude your way off here, just reread what you said! [/ QUOTE ] I did, it makes sense. If you dont 3 bet here then your not 3 betting enough. Folding is better than calling. [/ QUOTE ] wtf no!! but whatever...
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#25
07-30-2007, 09:20 AM
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Re: NL50 AJ on AQJ flop
wtf no!! but whatever... [/ QUOTE ] What part of my analysis about raising v calling dont you agree with?
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#26
07-30-2007, 09:47 AM
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Re: NL50 AJ on AQJ flop
[ QUOTE ]
wtf no!! but whatever... [/ QUOTE ] What part of my analysis about raising v calling dont you agree with? [/ QUOTE ] you say that 3betting AJ is good b/c we have a lot of fe against a tight 3bet calling range. The problem with that is that we don´t want to only take down the pot preflop or play against a range that has us completely crushed. you can do this with crap b/c you´re 3betting for the sake of making villain fold and not to get money into the pot as a favourite thus you are turning our hand into a bluff and AJ has way too much value to do this.
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#27
07-30-2007, 10:00 AM
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Re: NL50 AJ on AQJ flop
Im not expecting villians to only call when they have us crushed.
I.e im not just looking for tight players then 3 betting trying to get them to fold good hands. Original villan is 52/33/1, we are ahead here usually with AJ, he'll call with all kinds of crap looking to hit.
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#28
07-30-2007, 10:03 AM
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Re: NL50 AJ on AQJ flop
Alot of bad players who raise loads preflop raise 2BB most of the time and 4BB with things like AK and AQ. So if this player does this then you can probably narrow his range, although a player this loose will very often call a 3-bet with A9suited and ATo and QJs if they are hands he raises 4BB to start with.
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#30
07-30-2007, 10:36 AM
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Re: NL50 AJ on AQJ flop
You are turning your hand into a bluff when you 3bet with TT,JJ,AQ also, but I still do it.
3betting here against most opponents is immediately profitable as they fold often enough...this is especially true against TAG's and other solid good players. Bad players will also fold a lot, but a lot of them will call you with some weird holdings and then fold to a c-bet. If you just call with what is your plan?...he's going to bet the flop almost 100% I very rarely just call a raise with anything other than a pocket pair or a suited connector and ridiculously rarely against an open raise from the CO. And I dunno if you are wlee20 on Poker Stars but if you are you are very very nitty
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