Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

[Trestle]

Just want to throw my post up for the lack of support that Full Tilt is showing here. It is a shame that you have taken this persons money for the extended time you have and not given ANY information to her. She has been nothing but helpful from what is in this post and you have done little more then spit in her face. A person who over the years has put alot of money into your site. The fact that you take a guilty until proven innocent stance make me and I am sure many more look very unfavorably on your site.

I play micro limits but honestly if this isn't resolved soon for a loyal customer of yours I will take my small BR to PokerStar where they treat the people that play on the site with respect and respond to them when emailing. I emailed support a while back and did not get a simple form response. No response at all. The simple lack of any respect your support seems to be showing the people that fund your site is showing and if you don't fix it you will lose alot of the people that keep your site alive. I may be a small fish in your pond but when all the small fish are gonna the big ones will follow them.

[Specialwon]

FTP Sean, thank you for taking the time to post, although it does seem a lot of 2+2ers still aren't really satisfied with what they are hearing I'm sure we all appreciate that you personally are doing your best.

Unfortunately it still hasn't been made clear what is the basis of this particular investigation. I can't see how at least a general comment about its focus could prejudice FT in any way. It's very unfair to keep the player concerned in the dark and the rumour mill will keep grinding until that's fixed.

Sillysal mentioned a recent player with poor skills who lost 15k or so to her and 8k elsewhere, there may or may not have been a chargeback following his losses.

If there was a chargeback, I expect I wouldn't be the only one to wonder how such a player was permitted to buy in the order of $23,000 worth of chips on a bad card without FT tumbling to it. I mean c'mon!! Why don't you insist on eyeballing customers who deposit that sort of money? That way you have some chance of pushing liability back to the credit card company. I can't think of any reason why you couldn't ask a local agent to take a physical swipe of a card or obtain a pin number, or insist on one of the Verified for Visa programs or whatever.

Is there an issue about Full Tilt's deposit policy here? People may wonder whether this incident isn't maybe a sign that FT are too lax and are now trying to pass liability for chargebacks onto the other players?

The players themselves are entitled to expect that FT have done a good job in preventing stolen money getting onto the tables, if FT can't do that then I guess the players will just go elsewhere.

I'll also just weigh in on sillysal's behalf if I may, I think it's frankly scandalous that FT have not immediately said that if she is cleared of wrongdoing she will receive interest on her deposit. Surely that's the least they can do, since I'm sure the money isn't just sitting on some security guy's shelf with an "evidence" tag on it!? It should be in a suspense account earning at least nominal interest which sillysal should get.

[Rek]

Right, I guess I am not going to be popular here because everybody seems willing to condemn FTP in this fraud investigation. 99% of replies here are siding with sillysal and if this person is innocent I too have deep sympathy over this. However, once again I have to say the only problem I have is with the supposed lack of customer service offered to sillysal.

I was under the impression that FTP was not responding to emails in a timely manner but FTP confirms that they were responding within 24 hours. To me, this is acceptable. So is somebody lying? Did sillysal get their replies or not? If sillysal was sending duplicate emails then understandably replies to these would not be sent. Do people really think that 24 hours is so unreasonable?

From my perspective though I see a dispute between FTP (a site I believe to be trustworthy) and a player I have no knowledge on. Something is amiss regarding the customer’s account and FTP are investigating. There is only a minimal amount of information that FTP can supply to a public forum on a private case – surely you can all understand that.

Constantly, we get the “why don’t we see these problems with PokerStars?” questions raised. We all know that the customer support of Stars is exceptional in this industry and FTP should strive to reach their level. However, there are factors here that we, as a forum, are not privy to and we cannot expect FTP to give us more information than they have.

If people choose to play on a site other than Stars knowing their customer service is a little slower than the market leader that is all well and good. However, when you have a dispute don’t keep coming out with the “but on Stars……..” argument.

The more I read this thread the more I believe something serious has gone on. Maybe sillysal is innocent, maybe not. I would however, like to know that a full investigation has been completed.

I am a player just like the rest of you and I would not like to be in sillysal’s position if I was innocent. But the investigation must be completed fully. It will be interesting at the end to see the final response from FTP to sillysal. FTP will, I assume, be unable to make this public but I hope sillysal will post a full report to let us really determine how badly FTP has acted.

[Bobo Fett]

Here's the problem, Rek. FT has a history of doing this, sillysal is far from the first person to post on here in a situation like this. Also, history shows that if they find sillysal guilty of whatever they are investigating her for, that will be the end of the story. Unless FT has changed their ways from the past, her account will be closed, the money will be taken, and she will never be given a clue as to what she has apparently done wrong.

This history is the context in which everyone is judging FT. FT has done this in the past, promised to improve their CS procedures in light of these events, and now it appears not much has changed. That's why everyone is jumping all over FT, imo.

[Rek]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the problem, Rek. FT has a history of doing this, sillysal is far from the first person to post on here in a situation like this. Also, history shows that if they find sillysal guilty of whatever they are investigating her for, that will be the end of the story. Unless FT has changed their ways from the past, her account will be closed, the money will be taken, and she will never be given a clue as to what she has apparently done wrong.

This history is the context in which everyone is judging FT. FT has done this in the past, promised to improve their CS procedures in light of these events, and now it appears not much has changed. That's why everyone is jumping all over FT, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks Bobo - These past situations though. Are you implying that innocent people have had their accounts frozen and then confiscated? Or that they just don't let the forum know.

Obviously we get all sorts post here and con artists are always posting junk acqusations. Then its like a whispering campaign. I expect a good deal more complaints now about FTP without any real substance to them.

Just my thoughts on it - I am not a FTP appologist but I do want to know and be happy with the fact that any fraudsters get what they deserve. And we all get a fairer game.

[turtle82]

I agree with Rek. If FTP has confirmed that they have replied within 24 hours to her emails, and she cannot deny that, then what is the point of brining up their lack of comminication in the past? ( in this case)

Also, I have no problem with FTP having her her account closed, the money will be taken, and she will never be given a clue as to what she has apparently done wrong, if she was guilty.


"you implying that innocent people have had their accounts frozen and then confiscated? Or that they just don't let the forum know."

i guess i AM an FTP apologist, prolly the only one [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Josem]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, I have no problem with FTP having her her account closed, the money will be taken, and she will never be given a clue as to what she has apparently done wrong, if she was guilty.



[/ QUOTE ]


i assume that this is a mistype, right?

[Henry17]

It is a tough call for me. On the one side I've been in Sally's position several times and I know how frustrating it was the first few times.

I also understand FTP's position. Scamming a poker site is relatively easy and almost impossible to prosecute. The amount of attempted fraud is probably a lot higher then most people realize.

The problem is allowing payment processors that advance any form of credit even if only for 2-3 days. It might hurt business a little to not allow people to play until their transactions clear but at least it would put an end to all of this.

[Hopey]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I have no problem with FTP having her her account closed, the money will be taken, and she will never be given a clue as to what she has apparently done wrong, if she was guilty.


[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you'd have no problem with the police arresting you and throwing you in jail, without ever telling you what the evidence is against you or giving you a chance to defend yourself, if they believed that you were guilty.

Or your bank seizing your accounts and accusing you of bank fraud, without ever telling you what the evidence is against you or giving you a chance to defend yourself, if they believed that you were guilty.

[Henry17]

It is not that they never will tell you only that they will not tell you for some time. Most legal jurisdictions do allow for detainment without a showing of cause under certain circumstances.