How often do you fold flopped top set in Tournament? It's killing me.

[pdogger]

PokerStars Game #11648659927: Tournament #58540264, $5.00+$0.50 Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2007/08/23 - 14:25:46 (ET)
Table '58540264 28' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: epalisca (5061 in chips)
Seat 2: pdogger (6272 in chips)
Seat 3: txhammer (7287 in chips)
Seat 4: IDAWONTHAT (3000 in chips)
Seat 5: bblindplz (2565 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: vikings adam (8330 in chips)
Seat 7: bucna (6045 in chips)
Seat 8: UncleAl2 (18839 in chips)
Seat 9: steamer (3155 in chips)
vikings adam: posts small blind 50
bucna: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pdogger [Kc 2s Ts Ks]
UncleAl2: folds
steamer: calls 100
epalisca: folds
pdogger: calls 100
txhammer: raises 100 to 200
IDAWONTHAT: calls 200
bblindplz: folds
vikings adam: calls 150
bucna: calls 100
steamer: calls 100
pdogger: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [4d 7d Kh]
vikings adam: checks
bucna: checks
steamer: bets 1200
pdogger: raises 3600 to 4800
txhammer: folds
IDAWONTHAT: calls 2800 and is all-in
vikings adam: folds
bucna: folds
steamer: calls 1755 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [4d 7d Kh] [6s]
*** RIVER *** [4d 7d Kh 6s] [9h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
steamer: shows [6h 5d 8c Ad] (HI: a straight, Five to Nine; LO: 7,6,5,4,A)
pdogger: shows [Kc 2s Ts Ks] (HI: three of a kind, Kings)
steamer collected 155 from side pot
steamer collected 155 from side pot
IDAWONTHAT: shows [5h 2d 3h 7h] (HI: a straight, Three to Seven; LO: 7,6,4,3,2)
steamer collected 4800 from main pot
IDAWONTHAT collected 4800 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9910 Main pot 9600. Side pot 310. | Rake 0
Board [4d 7d Kh 6s 9h]
Seat 1: epalisca folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: pdogger showed [Kc 2s Ts Ks] and lost with HI: three of a kind, Kings
Seat 3: txhammer folded on the Flop
Seat 4: IDAWONTHAT showed [5h 2d 3h 7h] and won (4800) with HI: a straight, Three to Seven; LO: 7,6,4,3,2
Seat 5: bblindplz (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: vikings adam (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: bucna (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: UncleAl2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: steamer showed [6h 5d 8c Ad] and won (5110) with HI: a straight, Five to Nine; LO: 7,6,5,4,A

[samwallistea]

Could fold pre-flop to avoid these situations. On the flop kinda gotta figure your up against low+flush or low+straight draws, so a lot of time here you are only winning half the pot and getting allin gives 2 other players a freeroll for high on draw heavy board. Even if their low misses they have the straight and flush draws. I mean I cant see anyone realistically folding this, so if you want to avoid these situations fold preflop.

[pdogger]

Thanks. I'll have to work on that I guess.

[Lucere]

I would never play this hand, especially in a tourney, unless I was in the BB and could check an unraised pot, or call a little from the small blind. Even then, I wouldn't put much stock in it because looking at just your cards alone you can't make a low, you have the second nut flush draw (if that's even an option), and it's unlikely you're going to win high with that when there are a bunch of players in the pot, and almost definitely not going to scoop unless there is a very favorable board and everyone has unsuited lows (not likely).

bottom line: hands like these are trouble.

[jbrennen]

IMO, you're basically set-mining with this hand, but with the added restriction that you would really prefer to have at most one low card on the board, which will happen a little more than 60% of the time that you hit your set. Odds of hitting the set are a little over 12%. So about 7.5% of getting a board with a King and no good low draw.

So you need about 12-to-1 odds to draw for a good flop. You're not getting those odds on either preflop call, although it's close on the second one. So you're depending on implied pot odds, that you'll extract extra money postflop if you make your target flop. That's a stretch of course -- unless somebody makes an underset you may not get that postflop action.

Considering that you're only calling off 100 preflop from a 6000+ chip stack, it's understandable to call preflop -- it seems cheap. But then you flop the nuts and you're committed to taking a ride on the variance roller coaster. I don't think you can get away from this hand postflop, and that's part of why people are suggesting not to play it preflop -- you got enough of the flop to commit you, but not enough that you like what's happening.

[bbartlog]

Preflop is kind of loose, but stacks are deep enough relative to the blinds that I don't hate it.
On the flop, I think a flat call is better than raising. Even though opponent(s) will not have that much behind once the turn comes, you can still fold if a diamond comes and perhaps get them to chase if the board pairs. Also, you generally would like more callers rather than fewer for your hand; and you shouldn't make the mistake of jamming because you think you have a big equity edge, because while the flop isn't terrible it's not a huge winner for you either.
For what it's worth your opponents are bad [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[StrikeR300]

Fold Preflop for above mentioned reasons (unless the table is absurdly passive). As played: Call flop, fold turn. In all honesty though, you really didn't get it in horrible (but I believe you're suppose to stay away from situations like this in tourney's):

Flop: 7d 4d Kh
6h 5d 8c Ad == EV 39.0% == Scoop 142
Kc 2s Ts Ks == EV 35.7% == Scoop 159
5h 2d 3h 7h == EV 25.3% == Scoop 22

[neverforgetlol]

3 high cards and one low card is bad.