200NL TT overpair

[rakes.a.beach]

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $390
UTG+1: $390.50
CO: $198.22
Button: $75
SB: $210.73
Hero: $662.49

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $10</font>, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($21, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets $14</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($49, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets $30</font>, Hero ?

Villian is unknown. I probably ran at 18/15. What's a better line than playing it so passively?

[Kimpan]

you could bet out on flop, or lead turn.

[Don Key E37]

Tough and common spot. I think I like c/c then lead turn best. From villians perspective this could even be an 8 that doesn't want the turn checked through, and I occassionaly take this line with flopped sets, so if they are paying attention (I doubt it) Then I think they will definently fold most ak aq type hands. If you get raised your probably beat. The only thing about this line is if he is a good player then a lot of times he will raise your turn lead even without a hand because even though I do occasionally do this with sets, most don't and its usually a marginal made hand. If he flat calls then catch a 10 on the river cause I don't know what to do [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Some kind of read would be helpful.

[BombayBadboy]

Call turn, fold to a big bet on the river.

[urbanati]

Nothing is wrong with this line. It takes you to showdown the most cheaply. Call turn and just check again.

[dragonystic]

i like c/r the flop for 2 reasons. 1, you can get the villains c-bet, and take down the pot most of the time. 2, you can avoid a larger mistake by defining your hand early.

by c/c, you leave yourself in a good spot to get milked by larger pairs, outdrawn by overs, and perhaps outplayed if the river brings an overcard.

[rakes.a.beach]

[ QUOTE ]
i like c/r the flop for 2 reasons. 1, you can get the villains c-bet, and take down the pot most of the time. 2, you can avoid a larger mistake by defining your hand early.

by c/c, you leave yourself in a good spot to get milked by larger pairs, outdrawn by overs, and perhaps outplayed if the river brings an overcard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your point is valid, but isn't that turning our hand into a bluff? We're going to get called by better hands aside from maybe 99 and 77.

[holland3r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i like c/r the flop for 2 reasons. 1, you can get the villains c-bet, and take down the pot most of the time. 2, you can avoid a larger mistake by defining your hand early.

by c/c, you leave yourself in a good spot to get milked by larger pairs, outdrawn by overs, and perhaps outplayed if the river brings an overcard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your point is valid, but isn't that turning our hand into a bluff? We're going to get called by better hands aside from maybe 99 and 77.

[/ QUOTE ]

We probably have the best hand here, so there is merit to taking the inevitable cont bet and then raising to protect our hand. It's not really turning our hand into a bluff, because there's no way we're getting a better hand to fold. If anything, it boarders on "raising for information," which I'm loathe to do, but I think is okay in this spot.

The advantage to playing it the way OP did is that we can often put in less money when behind, catch bluffs, and get to showdown more often. Of course, knowing your opponent is even more important when playing it passively -- it's a bad board for him to double-barrel on with missed overs because there aren't any draws calling the flop.

This is a tough spot, no doubt, but not an uncommon one. Though I think you can make a case for several lines here, my preference vs an unknown is c/c flop, lead turn. If he calls your turn lead you can probably c/f most rivers, if he shoves over you flip a coin and fold or call.

[FGators]

[ QUOTE ]
i like c/r the flop for 2 reasons. 1, you can get the villains c-bet, and take down the pot most of the time. 2, you can avoid a larger mistake by defining your hand early.

by c/c, you leave yourself in a good spot to get milked by larger pairs, outdrawn by overs, and perhaps outplayed if the river brings an overcard.

[/ QUOTE ]

yay check/raising the flop let's us bloat the pot out of position drawing to two outs too!

[jeccross]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing is wrong with this line. It takes you to showdown the most cheaply. Call turn and just check again.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a true statement. However an alternative route may allow us to fold cheaper than getting to showdown when we know we're beat. Don't we end up feeling silly here when we get shown AK? I prefer leading one of the streets at least (prefer the flop I think).