How much is a degree from a low level law school worth? (and more ?s)

[niss]

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Niss and others,

Ok. I have the opportunity to go to a 3rd tier school with a large scholarship (2 years free) or instead attend a 2nd tier school at full price... what has a higher EV?

Basically I am between Hofstra (scholarhsip) and Brooklyn/Cardozo... and I want to practice in NYC.

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Based on my personal experience:

1. I think Cardozo ranks meaningfully higher than Brooklyn and Hofstra, at least for hiring purposes. In fact, I think Hofstra ranks better than Brooklyn. This is my opinion and experience and is not based on any US News rankings or other rankings. My experience with Hofstra students has been very good.

2. You can do well if you are one of the top students out of Hofstra, as well as one of the top students out of Cardozo. The difference is that top 15% to top 1/3 out of Cardozo may fare better (outside of Long Island) than that range at Hofstra.

3. There are a number of good firms on Long Island -- both branches of big firms and local firms -- that pay well and do meaningful, interesting work. You should not limit yourself to working in Manhattan if you are considering Hofstra.

4. Law school is way too expensive these days, and the debt can take a long time to pay off. Unless I am made of money, I am seriously considering the free ride.

[adanthar]

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Niss and others,

Ok. I have the opportunity to go to a 3rd tier school with a large scholarship (2 years free) or instead attend a 2nd tier school at full price... what has a higher EV?

Basically I am between Hofstra (scholarhsip) and Brooklyn/Cardozo... and I want to practice in NYC.

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My very anecdotal observations are that a top 10%, law review student at B/C is much better off than at Hofstra, solely because half the B/C law review goes directly to NYU/Columbia and never spends another day on campus. It's to the point where they probably need to keep a backup LR list handy.

Everyone else, however, is going to be muuuuuch better off not paying any money to graduate from Hofstra. 125K in loans (counting housing etc.) to graduate from a Tier 2 school is way too much.

[Claunchy]

Bump.

Okay, so I'm currently a 1L at Texas Wesleyan (a tier 4 school), where I will almost certainly finish the year in the top 5%. I have a half-tuition scholarship, and will have a lot of opportunities to do stuff like law review, moot court, whatever here.

Would I be better off transferring to SMU (#50ish on USNews, but pretty well-respected in DFW) where I would probably not excel quite as much? Also, it is super-expensive there, so I'd graduate w/ close to 100k in loans probably.

My gut says stay put where it's cheap and just pwn, but I seem to be getting the impression that a degree from a Tier 4 is all but hopeless. What's the concensus from you lawyers out there?

[Rococo]

One thing to consider. Contrary to what you may have heard, law school (particularly in the Northeast) often is more stressful at second and third tier law schools than at top law schools. If you are at Harvard, only those at the very bottom of their class create problems for themselves.

At Seton Hall, those in the bottom half are sweatin pretty hard.

[gusmahler]

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Bump.

Okay, so I'm currently a 1L at Texas Wesleyan (a tier 4 school), where I will almost certainly finish the year in the top 5%. I have a half-tuition scholarship, and will have a lot of opportunities to do stuff like law review, moot court, whatever here.

Would I be better off transferring to SMU (#50ish on USNews, but pretty well-respected in DFW) where I would probably not excel quite as much? Also, it is super-expensive there, so I'd graduate w/ close to 100k in loans probably.

My gut says stay put where it's cheap and just pwn, but I seem to be getting the impression that a degree from a Tier 4 is all but hopeless. What's the concensus from you lawyers out there?

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This is something that seems very location specific, so those of us not in Texas, won't be able to answer as well as those in the DFW area.

Sounds similar to Phoenix, where half the positions at big firms are filled by schools ranked around #50 (Arizona and Arizona State). Unfortunately, there was no tier 4 school around at the time to compare, so I can't help you. Try asking a bunch of 2Ls. You might also want to try your career center, though they may sugar coat things for you.

[MrMon]

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[ QUOTE ]
Bump.

Okay, so I'm currently a 1L at Texas Wesleyan (a tier 4 school), where I will almost certainly finish the year in the top 5%. I have a half-tuition scholarship, and will have a lot of opportunities to do stuff like law review, moot court, whatever here.

Would I be better off transferring to SMU (#50ish on USNews, but pretty well-respected in DFW) where I would probably not excel quite as much? Also, it is super-expensive there, so I'd graduate w/ close to 100k in loans probably.

My gut says stay put where it's cheap and just pwn, but I seem to be getting the impression that a degree from a Tier 4 is all but hopeless. What's the concensus from you lawyers out there?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is something that seems very location specific, so those of us not in Texas, won't be able to answer as well as those in the DFW area.

Sounds similar to Phoenix, where half the positions at big firms are filled by schools ranked around #50 (Arizona and Arizona State). Unfortunately, there was no tier 4 school around at the time to compare, so I can't help you. Try asking a bunch of 2Ls. You might also want to try your career center, though they may sugar coat things for you.

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This is great advice. Since you're top 5%, you clearly will have the pick of the firms that hire from your school. The thing is, are those firms you want to work for? If previous year's top 5% aren't getting hired by firms you want to go to, then move. If they are getting hired by places you'd like to work, stay put.

[slush fund]

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Bump.

Okay, so I'm currently a 1L at Texas Wesleyan (a tier 4 school), where I will almost certainly finish the year in the top 5%. I have a half-tuition scholarship, and will have a lot of opportunities to do stuff like law review, moot court, whatever here.

Would I be better off transferring to SMU (#50ish on USNews, but pretty well-respected in DFW) where I would probably not excel quite as much? Also, it is super-expensive there, so I'd graduate w/ close to 100k in loans probably.

My gut says stay put where it's cheap and just pwn, but I seem to be getting the impression that a degree from a Tier 4 is all but hopeless. What's the concensus from you lawyers out there?

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i went to a tier 3 school and finished in middle of the class. i also owe $110,000 and its my only regret. if i could have gone to a tier 4 school for free, knowing what i know now, i would have in a second. the thing is, i work for myself.

if you are pwning that well and get on law review, you will undoubtedly get a job. i've been admitted less than 5 years ago and several friends who did law review, moot court are already making $80-$90k. just about everyone i have spoken to, ran in to, or heard about from my class is working with about the worst case making $45-$50k working for the government.

its what you make of it. keep grades up, make law review, get a clerkship, whatever. as long as you aren't social retard, you will get a decent job and at least you won't have to cover the same monthly nut that most other people coming out will

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Bump.

Okay, so I'm currently a 1L at Texas Wesleyan (a tier 4 school), where I will almost certainly finish the year in the top 5%. I have a half-tuition scholarship, and will have a lot of opportunities to do stuff like law review, moot court, whatever here.

Would I be better off transferring to SMU (#50ish on USNews, but pretty well-respected in DFW) where I would probably not excel quite as much? Also, it is super-expensive there, so I'd graduate w/ close to 100k in loans probably.

My gut says stay put where it's cheap and just pwn, but I seem to be getting the impression that a degree from a Tier 4 is all but hopeless. What's the concensus from you lawyers out there?

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Is it the difference between 0 and 100K, or 50K and 100K? Also, can you possibly transfer to Texas?

[Claunchy]

The difference is between like 40k and 100k, since I receive about 10k a year for tuition + a little extra.

I would say the odds of my getting accepted at Texas are fairly slim. Depends on whether they care about undergrad.

The reason I couldn't have gotten into there from the get-go is because I had like a 3.1 GPA at a [censored] state school. My LSAT was 167. If my law grades have a huge impact maybe I have a shot.

[suzzer99]

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It would be incredibly difficult to "hang a shingle" in immigration law. I agree with you on "ambulance chaser" and "traffic law."

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My Mom graduated from law school (UMKC) when she was 45 or so. She continued to work for the Veterans Administration for a while after that doing arbitration. But then opened her own immigration law practice 8 years ago or so. AFAIK she's doing fine and loves the work, even has a couple employees.

I think she's trying to do adoptions too, but mostly still does immigration. She had worked for an established immigration lawyer in KC for a while. So I think that helped some. But it's not like she took over his practice or anything.