question from schneids' latest CR vid, BB defense with 44

[Schneids]

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yea I know what you mean, but even if we account for that (I tried adding the 2h to the board when looking at the flop play, and that doesn't even consider if villain picks up a draw on the turn) it's still super thin.

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Before thinking of it like that, consider there's 4BBs in the pot by the time the action gets to you on the flop (after the PFR bets and the SB calls). Now if we're going with the read that the SB has a ~7 outer (6 for overcards, 1 for a BD draw), and now sometimes the same for button, sometimes he's sharing outs with the SB, and sometimes the button has us beat, it amounts to becoming close if there's less money in the pot, but +EV when factoring in 4BBs already in the pot. And of all the ways to play the hand, checkraising the flop is the one which allows you the most clarity and ability to fold if behind (basically if anyone ever raises you on the turn or 3-bets the flop), over represent your hand and get 6 outers to fold on the turn, and garner you more action on future hands if you showdown this one.

I basically think of it like this: I'm beating SB, and for 1 more SB there's a 1 in 6 chance he's gonna turn me. My flop checkraise is basically getting me 5:1 on my money. I'm ahead of the PFR more than 1 in 5 times right, and a lot of the times when I'm not he'll let me know quickly because of the third guy in the pot. Even towards the bad end cases and they each have 10 outs, the turn hits either of them less than half the time.


A large factor for checkraising is that your hand is played strong enough, yet is overall weak enough, that if you're given a lot of action at any point, it's easy enough to get away from. Yet also, because of the drawy nature of the board, we may get an ace high to take an extra card off against us if the turn blanks a red 2, so, there's even more added EV in the postflop line.

[Schneids]

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doing some stoving I don't think that we have an equity edge here to push, but checkraising does make the hand easier to play. this is something I've noticed in a bunch of his vids, particularily heads up (more huhu vids plz schneids, preferably vs bad/mediocre LAGs at 5/10+). a lot of hands that I will play as bluff catchers (Ax Kx small pairs), schneids will play aggressively.

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A lot of the reason for doing this is so my postflop play can mean anything at any time. One of the biggest difference, IMHO, between the stars 50/100 games and stars 200/400 games, is the 50/100 players are 10x easier to read. Essentially, their flop and turn actions basically always define their hands.

That, and a lot of the time, in the HU pots with those small pairs/ace highs/king highs, the raising on my part is done for value and a further effort to try to get my opponent to fall into a pattern of predictability (most players, when against me and I'm on my game and effectively doing these type of things, fall into one of 2 lines: either call me down always with their bottom half of showdownable hands, and raise the top half, ie become predictable call stations; or, they decide to spew constantly against me when they can't show down (because they know I may have weak hands too) and play more passively with their better half cuz they want to _let me bluff_).


Against people who aren't observing [censored], I would say playing A and K hi passively as bluff catching is correct since mathematically and logically it makes the most sense to. However, against _better competition_, I think it's a noticeable liability and the best competition is going to exploit you and start playing their hands perfectly on the turn and river vs you.

I hope that makes sense, it's IMO one of the tougher topics in short handed LHE and even I struggle to explain it well since a lot of it is intuitive nature about what I've learned and discovered when playing against people and how they tend to react to various things.

[yourface]

great stuff thanks a lot schneids
you've left me with a lot to think about

[HOWMANY]

Schneids please try to find a way to do like a 3 handed video, I'm pretty sure I'm the worst 3 handed poker player on the planet and I don't understand why. I guess I might be really bad HU too but I usually only play people that I think are sucky so that might be why my results aren't as awful.

[joker122]

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doing some stoving I don't think that we have an equity edge here to push, but checkraising does make the hand easier to play. this is something I've noticed in a bunch of his vids, particularily heads up (more huhu vids plz schneids, preferably vs bad/mediocre LAGs at 5/10+). a lot of hands that I will play as bluff catchers (Ax Kx small pairs), schneids will play aggressively.

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of the reason for doing this is so my postflop play can mean anything at any time. One of the biggest difference, IMHO, between the stars 50/100 games and stars 200/400 games, is the 50/100 players are 10x easier to read. Essentially, their flop and turn actions basically always define their hands.

That, and a lot of the time, in the HU pots with those small pairs/ace highs/king highs, the raising on my part is done for value and a further effort to try to get my opponent to fall into a pattern of predictability (most players, when against me and I'm on my game and effectively doing these type of things, fall into one of 2 lines: either call me down always with their bottom half of showdownable hands, and raise the top half, ie become predictable call stations; or, they decide to spew constantly against me when they can't show down (because they know I may have weak hands too) and play more passively with their better half cuz they want to _let me bluff_).


Against people who aren't observing [censored], I would say playing A and K hi passively as bluff catching is correct since mathematically and logically it makes the most sense to. However, against _better competition_, I think it's a noticeable liability and the best competition is going to exploit you and start playing their hands perfectly on the turn and river vs you.

I hope that makes sense, it's IMO one of the tougher topics in short handed LHE and even I struggle to explain it well since a lot of it is intuitive nature about what I've learned and discovered when playing against people and how they tend to react to various things.

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i think i need to play less tables.

[ProfessorBen]

This thread is better than sleeping at a Holiday Inn last night.

[PP123]

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Didn't he explain the reasoning when he discussed the k4o live hand?

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Where can I find that hand?

[londomollari]

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Didn't he explain the reasoning when he discussed the k4o live hand?

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Where can I find that hand?

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Wasn't a hand he played. He spoke about it I guess somewhere around the halfway point.

[whodaman]

c/r is good here because we see where we are easier and never give free cards on the turn.
So far a dude has continuation bet and a guy who cc preflop calls the cont bet. Nobody has shown any real strength. And this is a good board for us.

Just think of an alternative line. c/c donk turn is the only decent one but how often would you do that with a strong hand.

[Spec]

Schneids, are you going to be making limit vids on a weekly basis? I would sign up, but I'm unsure of the fixed limit content. How many vids are for FL at this point?