Requirements to make a stand vs maniac.

[PocketElevens]

I just wanted to hear some discussion on what you guys are willing to take to the felt vs a maniac.
I made a stand last night, and had mixed feelings as to weather this was the spot or not.
Most of me was saying, Hes raising re-raising every hand therefore your up against a blind hand and good a big % of the time. The other part was saying, no this hand is vuneralble and easily beaten.

20c/40c NL turbo table (7sec to act)

Villian 100% VPIP 80% PFR over 15 hands. Got lucky with two pair a couple times and is managing to sustain a stack even though its obviously going to go down in the near future.

Villian on SB with $52
Hero on BB, has villian covered

Dealt to hero A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Preflop all fold to maniac (because they know the raise is comming) Maniac Raises to $2.50, Hero Calls

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (pot $5)
Villian Bets $10, Hero Calls

Turn 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (Pot $25)

Villian Bets $30, Hero Calls

River T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (Pot $85)

Villian All-in (not much more), Hero calls

result:
<font color="white">Villian shows Qd5c </font>


I thought about folding that turn, but Ive played heads up SNGS pretty close to his style against a really tight player. (except risking alot less chips) And understand just how rarely you have any kind of a hand at all.
I treated this like a blind hand and decided that I was ahead here more then behind and I let him bet his stack off.

Where do you guys make a stand?
What was also on my mind was this guy was going broke in the next 5min, it was just going to be the first person to have the balls to call.

How many of you would make a stand here? How many would wait for something better?


Remember, this is no tricky lag, this is a full blown maniac.

[vulturesrow]

Most made hands are good enough for me. I took some heat here for a hand where I went big with 44 on a ragged board against the same type of player. I like your play here, although some consideration could be given to raising his flop overbet, although that is more likely to put you in a bad spot, depending on his tendencies.

[Ra_]

I like it.

When playing against a maniac, the are going to force you to gamble a little. since they play so much it is almost impossible to tell when theve hit a good hand. you just have to judge how much of a maniac he is vs. how strong your hand is.

[PocketElevens]

[ QUOTE ]
Most made hands are good enough for me. I took some heat here for a hand where I went big with 44 on a ragged board against the same type of player. I like your play here, although some consideration could be given to raising his flop overbet, although that is more likely to put you in a bad spot, depending on his tendencies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the reply,

I couldnt raise the flop. A couple people try to trap him with a checkraise all-in and he folded every time.

What was probably happening was they picked up AA-QQ and where pushing, and hes sitting there with jack high.
So they win a small pot.

He did seem to believe he was going to win money, and if you played back at him he realized he couldnt make you fold so he tried again next hand.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
I couldnt raise the flop. A couple people try to trap him with a checkraise all-in and he folded every time.

What was probably happening was they picked up AA-QQ and where pushing, and hes sitting there with jack high.
So they win a small pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I was talking about when I referred to his tendencies. You played it just fine. Against a smart LAG Id be more likely to raise the flop because against that type of player you need to end the madness quickly because they wont play a big pot with a mediocre hand. Against they guy you described, a true maniac, calling down is fine.

[djoyce003]

i'll make a stand against a maniac with TP, OK kicker, which is what you have here. You did it the right way by just calling down. You win most of these, lose some of them. Very standard.

[PocketElevens]

[ QUOTE ]
i'll make a stand against a maniac with TP, OK kicker

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that will be the consensus. Top pair, decent kicker, call down. Any one else have a different view?

[Skuzzy]

Well you had great position on him. You knew he was betting anything at all, and you knew he would bet all the way if left to do it.

I like it. I just wish these guys were much more common :P

Although an extreme example, the thing to note here is that against him you had implied odds of his whole stack to draw at a hand as poor as TPWK. In fact, on this hand, bottom pair on the flop was good enough to take it. Just how wide does your preflop calling range become here?

[Fly]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'll make a stand against a maniac with TP, OK kicker

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that will be the consensus. Top pair, decent kicker, call down. Any one else have a different view?

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a real maniac I have in the past made stands (for stacks) with hands as weak as middle pair [censored] kicker and bottom pair (ok kicker). Though, on these occasions the maniac had repeatedly moved all in (even called all w/ no pair no draw) with garbage hands. I play full ring so I had to get in there and try and win his money fast cause he wasn't gonna last long!

[PocketElevens]

[ QUOTE ]
Just how wide does your preflop calling range become here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent question, This is what I was hoping to discuss.

I think if your looking to get him to bet his stack off, you want a top pair hand.

AA-JJ, AK-AT, KQ-KT, QJ?

Hands like TT-88 lose value, Im not conforable calling my stack away with 2 or 3 overs.

Of course I dont fold TT, I play back fast and win a small pot.

Hands like 55 you still play for set value if stacks are big enough.