Fun w/ TT - Page 3

Justin A · #21 10-17-2007, 03:34 PM

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After talking this over with the dude he convinced me that betting is certainly best and it's not actually that close. Had I bothered to do some hand reading I might have come to that conclusion the first time.

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Care to elaborate?

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See AndyFox's post a couple after yours.

Garland · #22 10-17-2007, 03:45 PM

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So what do you guys think these two clowns are going to do on the turn with hands like KQs, KJs, JJ-77? Which of those two possibly has an A, and specifically which A is it?

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Before I elaborate, I'm going to assume that since you're 4-betting with TT, you probably have a looser than normal image (i.e. you tend to get out of line a lot). How often are you 4-betting? And what exactly is your range?

Regardless, the answer to your question about a specific Ace is any.

If Mason had an A with any kicker, he would and should peel given 14:1 with your range and image and hope that the Asian behind him folds (or just calls, but hopefully not raise).

In addition, he's a strong candidate to hold AK specifically and he isn't raising to let you off the hook, my young aggressive friend. No sir. He's going to let you bet, bet and then bet again and take your monies.

You should check, and fold to a turn bet. Hoping that they both have underpairs (to the board, not necessarily you!) is the only reason this bet will work. It's not as likely as someone holding an A or K will fold.

Garland

stinkypete · #23 10-17-2007, 03:47 PM

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If Mason had an A with any kicker, he would and should peel given 14:1

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mason is a nit. he would not peel.

Chris Daddy Cool · #24 10-17-2007, 03:49 PM

this situation would be completely different if it was a Q high flop rather than a K high flop. as is, the pot is big enough to bet one more time to try to get QQ, JJ and the other TT to fold.

fwiw, mason certainly does not have an A unless it is AK.

Garland · #25 10-17-2007, 03:59 PM

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If Mason had an A with any kicker, he would and should peel given 14:1

mason is a nit. he would not peel.

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Ok, if this is true and he's not peeling for 3 outs, then he's certainly not peeling with an underpair to the K on board for 2 outs and one person to act, right?

He has a K, and it's probably AK because if I read Mason right, he's not calling 2 more cold with KQ or KJ type of hand pre-flop. He has AK specifically, and Dude need to bail.

Garland

stinkypete · #26 10-17-2007, 04:03 PM

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If Mason had an A with any kicker, he would and should peel given 14:1

mason is a nit. he would not peel.

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Ok, if this is true and he's not peeling for 3 outs, then he's certainly not peeling with an underpair to the K on board for 2 outs and one person to act, right?

He has a K, and it's probably AK because if I read Mason right, he's not calling 2 more cold with KQ or KJ type of hand pre-flop. He has AK specifically, and Dude need to bail.

Garland

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AK is most likely but i don't see why QQ-TT aren't possible.

QQ-TT have 2 almost definitely clean outs. AQ has 3 outs which might be good 1/3 of the time. add the fact that QQ-TT might be good on the flop and peeling to see what happens seems pretty standard.

he could peel AQs w/ backdoor flush draw but i wouldn't give much weight to it since it's mason.

Garland · #27 10-17-2007, 04:24 PM

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AK is most likely but i don't see why QQ-TT aren't possible.

QQ-TT have 2 almost definitely clean outs. AQ has 3 outs which might be good 1/3 of the time. add the fact that QQ-TT might be good on the flop and peeling to see what happens seems pretty standard.

he could peel AQs w/ backdoor flush draw but i wouldn't give much weight to it since it's mason.

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Well, TT is unlikely due to Dude's holding, and QQ and JJ has to worry about Asian button guy. After they both call the flop, what the hell can you put them on? Combined, it's extremely unlikely that they both don't hold a K. Dude's bet on the turn is a bluff that will only work if and only if they both have pocket pairs under K.

And BTW, this is Mason we're talking about. He doesn't have AQ and call 2 more cold pre-flop either.

In addition, if Mason won't peel 14:1 for an A, I'm almost certain Asian online player button will peel for 15:1. Just about guaranteed.

For the love of God, just check and fold this turn.

Garland

Justin A · #28 10-17-2007, 04:33 PM

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He has a K, and it's probably AK because if I read Mason right, he's not calling 2 more cold with KQ or KJ type of hand pre-flop.

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He may call two more with KQs or KJs.

The Dude · #29 10-17-2007, 04:34 PM

If Mason were closing the action on the flop it would be conceivable that he has AK here. But I can't see him calling to let the joker to his left peel with a pocket pair.

KQs and KJs are different stories, because he has to be worried about putting in raises with the 2nd best hand. QQ and JJ are also very likely hands for Mason.

Asian doesn't have an ever. He's certainly raising AK on this flop, and he's folding every other A he has, unless it's A5s (which I guess is possible, but I'm going to assume pretty unlikely). He also doesn't have AA or KK. So that leaves his with QQ-66. All of these hands should peel the flop and all of these hands will fold the turn. Betting the turn would be correct if the pot were like 1/3 the size.

This hand is the perfect example of why you should never stop hand reading mid action.

The Dude · #30 10-17-2007, 04:37 PM

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In addition, if Mason won't peel 14:1 for an A, I'm almost certain Asian online player button will peel for 15:1. Just about guaranteed.

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You're almost certainly wrong, but whatever. Even if we add AQs and AJs to Asian's range, betting the turn is correct and it's still not close.