Ruling Help

[randomcards]

All,

I have a ruling question.

SNG Home Tourney, small dollars amongst friends. We play reasonably by the rules but aren't rules nazis.

I am HU with other player. We are dealing ourselves (I know not ideal). I have a small chip lead.

The other guy is dealing, a medium sized pot comes up. On the turn I bet, the other guy looks at his cards and goes all in. I fold. Simple enough.

This is where it gets fun. Right after I fold, he realizes that the cards he looked at were the 2 burn cards and not his cards. This was an accident and it was late. So he essentially looked at burn cards (which were much better than his) and pushed me off of a medium-weakish hand.

I just let this go, didn't feel the need to be a jerk about it, plus didn't really know what to do.

Any takes on what you all would have done?

[DavidNB]

Need more info. If he lookd at the burn cards he should of known theu were not his hand thus he should of spoken right away before he bet. and also turned the cards up for all to see.

If it was late and he made a mistake, then the pot should of been split. He acted on bet of all-in on cards that were not his.

Burn cards should always be thrown in the muck, prevents this from happening.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
Burn cards should always be thrown in the muck, prevents this from happening.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely not. If you put them in the muck then there can be confusion as to whether there was a burn or not. Tuck the burn cards under the pot.

Nothing should be done here. The hand is over.nterestingly you believe that he truly thought the burn cards were his hand, therefore he didn't get any extra information since he apparently didn't know what the two cards that really were his hand. You folded to a bet , you would have folded to that bet regardless of which two cards he looked at. The problem only would have arisen if you called the bet and then he realised he looked at the burns, in which case you would also be entitled to see the burn cards.

[PantsOnFire]

I think the best solution would be for him to call your turn bet (or you take your turn bet back) and then deal a river with no more betting and the best hand wins.

In our home tourneys, when this sort of thing happens, we generally treat it as an all-in (all bets are evened out) and just deal out the cards.

[Lottery Larry]

Not sure anything can be done- you could take back your cards and play it out, but how would you know what to do?

Good story, leave it at that.

also- "We are dealing ourselves (I know not ideal). "
unless someone is bored, what else are you going to do?

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Burn cards should always be thrown in the muck, prevents this from happening.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely not. If you put them in the muck then there can be confusion as to whether there was a burn or not. Tuck the burn cards under the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I put them under the button, so there's no doubt what the burn cards are.


[ QUOTE ]
therefore he didn't get any extra information since he apparently didn't know what the two cards that really were his hand. You folded to a bet , you would have folded to that bet regardless of which two cards he looked at. The problem only would have arisen if you called the bet and then he realised he looked at the burns, in which case you would also be entitled to see the burn cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I say he's entitled to see the burn cards anyway.

Also, say hero takes back his money, the burn cards are exposed and play continues. What is your action when villain a) checks behind b) bets c) pushes all-in again?

[randomcards]

It was late and we were very tired. It was sort of a close board (QJ96 or something). He said afterwords that his cards were close to the burn cards which is why he was confused. But he also said the burn cards "hit" more than his cards. So for example he had like K8 or something and the burn was Q8.

I don't know if he would have checked his "weaker" real cards, thereby leading to a different possible result.

[ QUOTE ]

Also, say hero takes back his money, the burn cards are exposed and play continues. What is your action when villain a) checks behind b) bets c) pushes all-in again?

[/ QUOTE ]

What you describe would have worked if he would have realized he looked at the burn before I folded. Then we would have flipped the burn so I could see and I would have decided what to do. It would have been a tough decision, what would you do if you had a weakish pair HU and your opponent bet all in thinking he had different cards?

However because I folded we could not go back in the hand because I obv gave away my hand strength with the fold.

Splitting the pot might have been equitable alternative. Not sure.

[randomcards]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Burn cards should always be thrown in the muck, prevents this from happening.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely not. If you put them in the muck then there can be confusion as to whether there was a burn or not. Tuck the burn cards under the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I put them under the button, so there's no doubt what the burn cards are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree burn cards should go in the muck, just in case there's any confusion as to whether a card was burned. Putting them under the button is a good idea. It was just one of those wierd once in a loooong time situations.

Also on a more positive note for the first time ever I hit a one outer on the river. 4 players all in pre-flop.

Hero with QQ vs. 88 vs. KK vs. AQ
Flop is J8X, turn is X, river is Q!!

[hitch1978]

[ QUOTE ]
It was late and we were very tired. It was sort of a close board (QJ96 or something). He said afterwords that his cards were close to the burn cards which is why he was confused. But he also said the burn cards "hit" more than his cards. So for example he had like K8 or something and the burn was Q8.

I don't know if he would have checked his "weaker" real cards, thereby leading to a different possible result.

[ QUOTE ]

Also, say hero takes back his money, the burn cards are exposed and play continues. What is your action when villain a) checks behind b) bets c) pushes all-in again?

[/ QUOTE ]

What you describe would have worked if he would have realized he looked at the burn before I folded. Then we would have flipped the burn so I could see and I would have decided what to do. It would have been a tough decision, what would you do if you had a weakish pair HU and your opponent bet all in thinking he had different cards?

However because I folded we could not go back in the hand because I obv gave away my hand strength with the fold.



[/ QUOTE ]

True, but what if he turned the burn cards up and they were UTTER TRASH. Like 24o on the board you previously described. Then he pushed again.

What do you do now holding a weak hand like second pair?

(Obviously for this to be a propper insightful decision we must know pot-odds etc, but as a theoretical question.)

[randomcards]

[ QUOTE ]

True, but what if he turned the burn cards up and they were UTTER TRASH. Like 24o on the board you previously described. Then he pushed again.

What do you do now holding a weak hand like second pair?

(Obviously for this to be a propper insightful decision we must know pot-odds etc, but as a theoretical question.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Very interesting. It was a medium pot maybe 3K chips, me with 17K behind and him with like 13K behind. I honestly would have no idea what I would have done, that too many levels of psychology for me. Good theoretical though!

Actually I would tend to fold here, because HU normally I can find a better spot to pick off a mistake, where I am more sure of a read. 3 hands later he bluffed all in with K9 on a AA6 board and I called with 62. Easy call with my read on the player and it held up. Ship it.