Bet Folding

[Dhani]

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I have been using the bet/fold primarily against loose passive players, especially when I'm OOP. I had a great example today. I held QQ in early position. I raised and got two callers, one the BB, who is pretty solid but passive, and one an LP calling station in the CO. The flop came J96, with two hearts, and my QQ is black. BB checks, I bet, CO calls, BB folds. Turn is a 6, bet call. River is the 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I bet, he calls shows me JTo and I start stacking chips.

Now in the past, even in position, I would check/called the 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the river there. I'm just plain scared of it. I end up spending the same bet when he gets there and I end up missing a bet when he has a hand that I beat but won't bet on the end.

You mention above that you have been incorporating the bet/fold more as illustrated in this situation.
1) You would then lean torwards folding if villain raises with position in this situation.
2) What if villain is OOP and check raises you?
3)What if villain calls the turn bet?
a)Do you BET/FOLD the river against a raise?


This may just be my experience but I'm also finding that it gets me loose river action I never would have gotten before. I think it's screwing with the thinking of some of the better players in my game. They are used to seeing the dangerous river and turn cards checked through, and when you bet them, they tend to think you're bluffing. I can almost see the gears turning in their heads:

"Why is he betting that spade? Isn't he afraid he'll get raised? He must not have a hand and think that the only way he can win is to bet. I'm going to make a superstar call with third pair and a busted straight draw."

I cannot believe the calls I have gotten out of some regulars in the past few weeks.

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[One Outer]

Of course I fold to a raise in this situation. The passive players in the game this example comes from are so passive they wouldn't even raise a rivered two pair in this spot, so if he is raising, I'm screwed.

The c/r is completely read dependent. In this hand, against this opponent, I'm folding.

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What if villain calls the turn bet.

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Huh? You mean if the flush card comes out on the turn and he then calls my bet? If that is what you mean, then I bet the river again anyway, even if it brings the fourth flush card (Clarkmeister Theorem). If no more of that suit comes out he'll still pay me, and if he does raise me, well I suppose once again that's situational. Is the river a complete blank? I'm more inclined to call if it is, but if the card is in his two pair wheelhouse I'm more inclined to fold. It's hard to say until the situation happens.

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Do you bet fold the river against a raise?

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What? I don't get it. Perhaps you mean, if he raised the turn and I call, do I donk into him again and then fold if he raises?

[Dhani]

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Do you bet fold the river against a raise?

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What? I don't get it. Perhaps you mean, if he raised the turn and I call, do I donk into him again and then fold if he raises?

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The turn is a flush card. You bet the turn and he calls. The river blanks and..
a)you lead again and he raises.

[One Outer]

My default play would then be call. It's just too weird a line for his story to make sense, as Kit might say.

[KitCloudkicker]

Rob, a place i will b/f HU on the river:

I bet every street on with AK on an ace high board and a relatively passive player raises me when the 3 card flush hits.

[Xhad]

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op,

also, when i take a b/f line, both the "story" i tell and the "story" the villain tells has to make sense.

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This doesn't have to be the case with extreme loose passives. Over the last couple weeks I've made a ton of bet/folds where it should be obvious the river didn't help either of us but they're not good enough to know that.