Flop spot

[NinaWilliams]

UTG is 30/23 after 130 hands. I havent seen him do anything that would make me think hes a spewtard yet. SB is 45/18/1. Hes generally pretty loose passive but with bouts of random spew.

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB caps</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (13SB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises</font>, Hero

[acehole60]

Baaah, this really sucks. My first thought is to 3-ball, but I just feel like we're beat a lot. I think this calls for a stove. Unfortunately I can't do one until I get home, but I think you should try plugging their ranges in.

[aargh57]

OK, I tried to do pokerstove but maybe I'm too stupid to figure it out. I put in 23% for player one, TT for us and 7.4% for SB (how do I figure out his range for capping?) With the flop we've got 39% equity but this disregards action. I honestly don't know what to do in this (and many other) spot.

[ZOMG_RIGGED!]

UTG just raised the PF capper, and into the pf reraiser on a harmless board. He obviously doesnt care what either of you have.

[numbnuts007]

I 3 bang here all day. The pot is big, we have position and an overpair. I'm not convinced until the flop is capped in which case i'm peeling to the turn and reevaluating.

sb range is about TT or JJ+ and AKo, AKs and maybe AQs. Utg+1 may only have A8 or a club draw. I can't fold yet and raising is the only alternative.

[rzk]

without a stove, i just want to give up in this rio spot. i feel pretty weak doing that though. will do a stove later.

[Tryptamean]

I would just go ahead and 3bet the flop. Pot is big enough that you have to fight for it. Depending on future action, I think we could find a reasonable fold, but I'll tend to showdown if its not too expensive. If these guys both shut down on the flop + turn, you can check behind the river.

If it gets capped on the flop, I would call down if its only one bet on each street. If there is any turn raising from either player, you can fold.

[milesdyson]

i fold this. i'd probably fold jacks too. i'm not even really excited with queens.

[Tryptamean]

Here is a stove with some guesses on ranges. Hand 1 is SB, which is a fairly tight coldcapping range. Hand 0 is UTG. I figure he will play any overpair+ made hand this way, as well as big clubs. Adding or subtracting a few flush draws does not seem to dramatically affect our equity. I also threw in a couple AKo hands cuz I'm sure hands like that are at least a possibility.

Anyway, I still think we should continue, but I'm torn between coldcalling and 3betting. I think we will get pretty reliable information about SB's hand by coldcalling, allowing us to make a prudent fold on the turn. However, given the pot size, it would be excellent to push him off a big ace with no club by 3betting, and we'd still get pretty reliable information for the turn.

Board: 8c 3c 5s
Dead:

equity win tie
Hand 0: 50.432% 49.52% 00.91% { 88+, 55, 33, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, AhJh, AcTc, Ac9c, Ac7c, Ac6c, Ac5c, Ac4c, Ah4h, KcQc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, JcTc, AcKd, AcKh, AcKs, AdKh, AdKs }
Hand 1: 29.895% 29.20% 00.70% { 88+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+ }
Hand 2: 19.673% 19.07% 00.60% { ThTs }

[ZOMG_RIGGED!]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we will get pretty reliable information about SB's hand by coldcalling, allowing us to make a prudent fold on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? isnt SB calling with 100% of his range? doesnt tell us if he has overs or JJ and is getting cold feet and it tells us nothing about UTG. Wouldnt a 3bet giv eu sthe best information about both hands and maybe knock out SB's overs in case we some how do have the best hand?