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  #1  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:43 PM
Todd Terry Todd Terry is offline
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Default WPT Five Diamond - Trips w/ A Kicker, Monochrome Flop vs. Shaniac

I thought about this hand from last December when reading the Bill Ivey hand, which has a few similarities to it, absent the preflop raises and the need to go to the bathroom. $15K Bellagio WPT event, 300/600/75 (I think, it's not really relevant). Shane's been up and down quite a bit, as have I, both playing a lot of pots. I was caught bluffing a couple times early. I have about 42K to start, he has me covered.

Bunch of limpers, including Shane in LP, I'm in the BB with A9o. Flop: 9 4 3, all hearts (I think, it was monochrome, the color of the suit is not relevant). My A is not the A of hearts. Shane is directly in my view of the flop, I see him check his cards before the action gets to him.

Checked around to Shane, he bets 1800, I call, everyone else folds.

Turn: 9c. I check, Shane bets 5000, I c/r to 15000, he thinks for a long time and calls.

River is a brick, doesn't pair the board, doesn't pair my kicker, doesn't put a 4th heart out. I check, Shane thinks for a while and shoves. Hero?
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  #2  
Old 10-30-2007, 08:05 PM
adanthar adanthar is offline
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Default Re: WPT Five Diamond - Trips w/ A Kicker, Monochrome Flop vs. Shaniac

If I play this way, it's to call this shove because I think that his card check means he does not have a flush (obv). that said, did you see him do this earlier?
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  #3  
Old 10-30-2007, 08:13 PM
WarDekar WarDekar is offline
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Default Re: WPT Five Diamond - Trips w/ A Kicker, Monochrome Flop vs. Shaniac

[ QUOTE ]
If I play this way, it's to call this shove because I think that his card check means he does not have a flush (obv). that said, did you see him do this earlier?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh seriously, what's with ppl not having a plan? If you check/raise the turn how can you not check/insta-call a river shove?

If I'm check/raising turn here I'm doing it with the intent to check and induce a bluff when he misses his heart draw presumably.

If you plan on folding this you should've never check/raised the turn, just check/call and then do one of those fancy bet/folds everyone talks about on non-[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] rivers.
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  #4  
Old 10-30-2007, 08:31 PM
Todd Terry Todd Terry is offline
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Default Re: WPT Five Diamond - Trips w/ A Kicker, Monochrome Flop vs. Shaniac

[ QUOTE ]
If I play this way, it's to call this shove because I think that his card check means he does not have a flush (obv). that said, did you see him do this earlier?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it was not something I had seen him do earlier.
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  #5  
Old 10-30-2007, 08:44 PM
Todd Terry Todd Terry is offline
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Default Re: WPT Five Diamond - Trips w/ A Kicker, Monochrome Flop vs. Shaniac

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I play this way, it's to call this shove because I think that his card check means he does not have a flush (obv). that said, did you see him do this earlier?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh seriously, what's with ppl not having a plan? If you check/raise the turn how can you not check/insta-call a river shove?

If I'm check/raising turn here I'm doing it with the intent to check and induce a bluff when he misses his heart draw presumably.

If you plan on folding this you should've never check/raised the turn, just check/call and then do one of those fancy bet/folds everyone talks about on non-[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] rivers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously, when I c/r'ed the turn, I was planning on getting my chips in. I didn't expect him to call the c/r given the effective stacks, I expected him to shove (which I was calling) or fold. The call was a strange play, which caused me to at least potentially re-evaluate my plan. IMO snapcalling a shove on the river live without the nuts or virtual nuts, when you can take all the time in the world to think if you want (which you cannot do in formulating plans based on contingencies), is just dumb.
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2007, 08:56 PM
WarDekar WarDekar is offline
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Default Re: WPT Five Diamond - Trips w/ A Kicker, Monochrome Flop vs. Shaniac

I didn't like literally mean snap-call, but as I said if I'm check/raising it's with full intention of getting chips in so there better be a damn good reason I'm not now.

If you had all these thoughts during the hand, you should've specified so in the OP because you didn't. We should know your thought process here if you want good opinions.
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  #7  
Old 10-30-2007, 09:01 PM
Todd Terry Todd Terry is offline
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Default Re: WPT Five Diamond - Trips w/ A Kicker, Monochrome Flop vs. Shaniac

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't like literally mean snap-call, but as I said if I'm check/raising it's with full intention of getting chips in so there better be a damn good reason I'm not now.

If you had all these thoughts during the hand, you should've specified so in the OP because you didn't. We should know your thought process here if you want good opinions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tried to avoid putting too many of my thoughts in the hand description, because I wanted to get people's opinions uninfluenced by my own thoughts, which I think is a fairly common way hands are posted here.
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  #8  
Old 10-30-2007, 09:16 PM
NYWalker NYWalker is offline
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Default Re: WPT Five Diamond - Trips w/ A Kicker, Monochrome Flop vs. Shaniac

On the flop, turn, your hand didn't rep a made flush to him. To us, his hands look like Ah2x (very likely) or 94s/44/22 (remote but possible).

As played, I would bet 10K at the river to block bluff.

At the river, the problem is your stacksize, you had about 25K behind, pot is 35K. It's very risky to bet 10K and fold to a shove. But, if you bet, his shoving range is only a boat. This awkward situation is because you c/r the turn instead of leading out pot at the turn.

If he had you beat at the turn (meaning he flopped set/tp and turned boat or flopped nut flush), he'd re-raise you because that might be the last chance to stack you if you miss the river with a flush draw, also you can't fold a 9 on the turn.

Now, you check the river and he shoves, I call because we expect a shove from many hands we beat when we check to him when there is a sizable pot.

--------------------
Have you thought of betting the turn?
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  #9  
Old 10-31-2007, 12:19 AM
Ian J Ian J is offline
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Default Re: WPT Five Diamond - Trips w/ A Kicker, Monochrome Flop vs. Shaniac

Fold river.

If you really think about it from Shane's perspective, what could you play like this that doesn't beat A9? I suppose he could limp some hand with a 9 in it and play this way, but I think it's way more likely he has, in order, a full house, the nut flush, some small flush.
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  #10  
Old 10-31-2007, 12:26 AM
Bond18 Bond18 is offline
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Default Re: WPT Five Diamond - Trips w/ A Kicker, Monochrome Flop vs. Shaniac

I know we have TPTK on the flop and thats great and all, but Shane is firing into a bunch of players on a coordinated board, we're fairly deep, OOP, and with no redraw.

I basically just want to fold flop. Anyone else think so to?
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