Stars VIP Wild speculation

[1p0kerboy]

[ QUOTE ]
scotty what i find weird is you guys wont promote what im doing =( Im going to try for 400,000 hands about or 200,000 vpp in the remaining 44 days and you guys wont give me anything if i do it, i did 300,000 vpp in 10.5 months... u would think u guys would be nice and add a little incentive for me =(

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What do you mean they won't give you anything?

You should get $4,000 for your 400,000 VPP milestone and $5,000 for your 500,000 VPP milestone.

To say that won't give you anything is silly (and a lie) when essentially they're giving you $9,000. The 500,000 VPP mark is just about the best spot in the program.

[kozip]

i hope that stars changes the freeroll-system for SN players, because for europeans the freerolls take place at 8 pm.
saturday 8 pm is the only time in the week that i DONT want to spend playing online poker.

the alternatives i would really like:
-less freerolls, but bigger pricepool
-no freerolls but SM tickets once in a while
-no freerolls but $T
-no freerolls but free $100 for each 10K VPP´s/month

[badbeatLOL]

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The 500,000 VPP mark is just about the best spot in the program.

[/ QUOTE ]

care to elaborate?
imo the "best" mark would be the 750kVPP mark in terms of hourly earn rate in FPPs and milestone bonuses (the tourney packages have close to zero value for me because i have to spend time traveling and my EV is kinda low as a FL player)

[MicroBob]

The 750k mark takes you DOWN in value.
The 500k mark is the 2nd best spot in the whole program.

Actually making it to Elite is the very best spot value-wise but that assumes you have no hang-ups about playing in big donkaments and that you consider a $12k tourney package to actually be worth $12k for your purposes.

But to get from 500k to 750k you have actually gone backwards in overall value.

[badbeatLOL]

okay lets leave the SNE aside cause like i said, the tourney stuff has zero value for me, i'd rather have a 6k travel gift card than a 12k tourney package.
but i still don't get why the 750k mark should take me down in value.
the 500k mark brings 14k$ in milestone bonuses, actually only 11k because you have to spend 200k FPPs on them which are worth 3k$ in the store.
the 750k mark brings you 21,5k$ -3750$ (FPPs spent)= 17750$ bonus money.
so you play 50% more, but get about 61% more money.
what am i missing?

[1p0kerboy]

750,000 VPP is slightly better than the 500,000 mark IIRC. BUT as soon as you reach somewhere in the neighborhood of 780,000 (I'm guessing...I did the math before) you go DOWN IN VALUE BELOW the 500,000 mark.

[MicroBob]

Whooops.
I was incorrect.

Doesn't even matter if you tack on the extra VPP's to clear the requirement imo.
750k is a slightly better value than the first 500k.

I was looking at it more progresively I guess:
0-310k period = 1.1c/VPP
310k-515k period = 3.6c/VPP
515k-775k period = 2.6c/VPP

But a more accurate way is probably to do it as:
0-515k = 2.1c/VPP
515k-775k = 2.6c/VPP


Notes: I tacked on a few more to account for clearing the bonus since that's when you actually GET the money.
Subtracted $750 from each milestone fo rthe purchase of the bonus.
For example, the first four milestones are 1250+2250+3250+4250 = 11,000

[1p0kerboy]

[ QUOTE ]
Notes: I tacked on a few more to account for clearing the bonus since that's when you actually GET the money.

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Bob,

If you are adding the additional VPPs that are required to clear the bonus, are you ALSO adding the value of the FPPs that the player is going to accumulate during this "clearance" period? I think you are but just wanted to check.

Also, maybe the clearance period should be discounted a bit in the case that the player was going to play during that period regardless?

Also consider that while clearing the bonus you could already be starting the next year's accumulation, in which the clearance requirements would be 0 because you are getting the new years' value on your play as it is.

Because of the last 2 points I don't really count the additional bonus-clearance requirement but I certainly count the deduction of fpps that the bonuses cost.

Hope all of this isn't too nit-picky and certainly if one was not going to continue playing at Stars after clearing the bonus than the clearance requirement should definitely be counted.

[MicroBob]

okay, here's the long-winded response. You asked for it.
(well...no you didn't I guess...but you're getting it anyway)


[ QUOTE ]

If you are adding the additional VPPs that are required to clear the bonus, are you ALSO adding the value of the FPPs that the player is going to accumulate during this "clearance" period? I think you are but just wanted to check.

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The rate at which you accumulate FPP's remains constant throughout so there is no need to factor it in at any point whether you are clearing a bonus, on your way to a milestone, or anything else.
You are always getting 5.25c/VPP (to make things simpler).

In milestone bonuses, for the first 510k VPP's you are getting an additional 2.13c/VPP on top of that.

IOW - I count the FPP's as full-value as you continue to earn them all the way through from 0 to 1 million or whatever.
I then subtract $750 that you spend to purchase each bonus.

[ QUOTE ]

Also, maybe the clearance period should be discounted a bit in the case that the player was going to play during that period regardless?

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Absolutely not!
Although I'm sure Stars prefers that players look at it that way.
What if they gave you the $4250 in cash right at 500k points instead of 515k?
You probably wouldn't say, "Well, I can count the money as being in my possession when I reach 485k points...because I was going to play those next 15k points regardless. It's not like I'm going to leave the site."

That's silly.
If you get the money at 515k then that's how it should be counted.
You should not say, "Well, I kind of got it at 500k or 485k or whatever which is close enough."


[ QUOTE ]

Also consider that while clearing the bonus you could already be starting the next year's accumulation

[/ QUOTE ]


This is a valid point.
If I get the milestone bonus granted to me at 740k (they frequently will give it to you a little early) and then decide to stop playing at Stars until Jan 1 and then finish off the 35k play-through in 2008 then I'm putting those points to extra work.
They definitely have more value that way.

This is difficult to define precisely though....especially since we don't even know exactly what changes are coming for the next year and you don't know what your milestone value for the next year is going to be unless you know EXACTLY how much you are going to play ahead of time.

But it's not exactly like you are earning double points really because you still only get 5.25c worth of FPP's.
It's only the milestone value that is effectively doubled since I count the $6750 milestone as actually taking place around 775k and not at 750k.

Anyway you can approximate:
You are getting double milestone-value while your FPP-value stays the same.
So if your 2007 milestone earn was 2.4c/VPP and you expect your 2008 milestone earn to be 2.4c/VPP or something then your milestone-value for each of those 35k VPP's to begin 2008 is now 4.8c instead of 2.4c.

This is an $840 additional you are getting extra by doing it that way if indeed my way of looking at it is correct and I'm really not certain it is.

So if it doesn't matter to you when you actually get the money and you feel like taking a break at some point then taking time-off for the last 2 weeks of 2007 and saving the rest of that bonus to be cleared for the beginning of 2008 could very well be the better way to go.

This is actually something I'm going to have to think about more as I expect I'll get to 750k-ish somewhere around mid-Dec or later.
I was probably going to take a rest for the holidays once I got that bonus granted to me anyway but that's only because I knew it was 'in the bag' so to speak and that getting to 800k or 850k has no additional incentives.
Now that i think more in detail about how those very same VPP's will be performing double-milestone-value duty I think I'm encouraged even more to do that.


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I don't really count the additional bonus-clearance requirement

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As I indicated before, I don't think you should do that.
The money really doesn't count until it's in your pretty little hands.
Although for purposes of calculating the money/VPP value of the various milestones the effect is negligible. but it still counts.

If you got the money right smack-dab on 300k and 400k we wouldn't be looking at it as getting you 'pretty much' got the money at 285k and 385k because you were going to keep playing there regardles.

[1p0kerboy]

Bob,

You make some really good points there. I'm going to count clearance requirements from now on.

'boy