Why you lower your raises when the blinds get higher.

Chesskid1 · #1 05-21-2007, 05:12 PM

Hi, I have a friend, who still 3x raises when the blinds are huge, even at 12k, he is still raising to 36k. I asked him why, since I like to lower my raises when the blinds get higher, he told me he finds people play back alot more at him. I tried to explain that most of the top internet MTT players love to lower raises when blinds get high, do buyins affect how much you lower your raises? When do you personally start lowering your raises? Would love to get some input on buysin, when to start lowering your raises, benefits of lowering and/or not lowering them. Would love to get alot of input on this and will be linking this thread to my friend. Thanks guys. My friend mostly plays less than $70 tournaments, so like 11r, $50 FOs, mainly. Thanks for your opinions guys.

andre006 · #2 05-21-2007, 05:17 PM

usually 2/3 levels after antes kicks in, to get more leverage

curtains · #3 05-21-2007, 05:20 PM

I dunno it depends I guess. Basically you should raise an amount that will have the overall intended effect you are looking for. You must sometimes not do this because you need to balance your good hands and bad hands, so you aren't always doing it for each individual hand but as a part of a larger more comprehensive strategy.

If when the blinds are 6k 12k you feel that raising to 32k with every raising hand will accomplish all the things you are looking for, then that's fine.

Also once the blinds get higher calling a raise generally represents a larger % of your opponent's stack, so they will naturally be tighter with their calls.

Assassinato · #4 05-21-2007, 05:21 PM

Yeah, I'm the friend who doesn't believe in this. I'm actually just kind of lazy when it comes to this on Pokerstars as often I am multitabling and its easier for me to hit the slider bar then to type in a number. I do vary my raises on Bodog and Ultimatebet, but I am still of the opinion it doesn't make that much of a difference. I'm probably wrong though...to tell you the truth I haven't given that much thought to it.

APipeDream · #5 05-21-2007, 05:24 PM

Depends on the site for me. I know you like your odd raises Chessskid (played with you quite a bit in the 180s), and it works, especially on Stars. People aren't looking at your bb raise size, they are looking at how big that stack of chips look. ;P EVent continuous MTT pros sometimes miss this I think. On FTP I stay at 3bbs until much later than Stars. Only 2 I play on right now.

Jeff76 · #6 05-21-2007, 05:54 PM

FWIW, I recently tried raising MORE when the antes kicked in (to 3.5x) and I found my steals worked a lot better. Plus, post flop decisions were a lot easier (though that might not be a good thing . . .)

Chesskid1 · #7 05-21-2007, 05:55 PM

My personal feelings are that lowering your raises is very beneficial and I get the same amount of respect. I can understand how raising to like 36k instead of 30k can get you more respect, but if you get restol'd and have to fold you save 6k. I raise less as the blinds get higher, so i'm raising to 2000ish at 400/800 and 65kish (more if it's a higher buyin, or if the stacks are deeper) at 15k/30k. I feel in the long run you save alot of chips and you keep the same amount of respect. I guess it's more of a preference, and it doesn't really matter? I'm not really sure..

Assassinato · #8 05-21-2007, 06:03 PM

Well if you watch a player like Jsup later on in tournaments he will often raise to 4x the big blind preflop, as if to show everyone "look I'm playing this hand, do not mess with me".

I do think there is a valid argument for making goofy raises but say you save 0.5bb everytime this doesn't work. I just don't see that as enough to save to compensate for all the times somebody goes "well he's obviously stealing because he's doing one of those goofy ass raises Annette_15 always does".

I mean, thats one argument. I do think its better to vary your raise sizes, actually. It jsut works less with me because i always do 3x so a sharper guy like Chesskid is going "hey whats going on?" when I suddenly make it 2.5x.

So I guess, if you started playing the endgame doing always 3x you shouldn't change it, but if you're varying your raises from the get go its probably better, but overall I dont think its a huge difference.

Jeff76 · #9 05-21-2007, 06:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My personal feelings are that lowering your raises is very beneficial and I get the same amount of respect.

[/ QUOTE ]I promise you, people react differently to a 2.5x vs a 3.5x raise.

Not sure what to do with that, but bet sizing definitely makes a difference.

Assani Fisher · #10 05-21-2007, 08:16 PM

My raises late are usually somewhere around 2.25x the BB. There are exceptions, namely if I'm dealing with a short stack or big stack I'll raise more. Its the medium stacks(usually this is the majority of the people) that can't really afford to waste even another 1.25 BBs on a marginal hand out of position.

Getting restolen on isn't a huge problem. With the antes, I usually make more than 2.25BB on a steal so as long as I can go 50% its fine. And I welcome calls- I think I'm a very good postflop player, I'm in position, and I always have somewhat of a hand even if its just suited one gappers or the like.