2008 National Champions (NCAAF)

[JackWhite]

For all those on the Michigan bandwagon, don't forget that Lloyd Carr is still head coach.

In the last 6 seasons his record against OSU and Bowl opponents is 2-10. In Carr's last 17 non-conference games against teams from BCS conferences and ND, he is 6-11.

It doesn't matter how much talent UM returns, as long as coach Carr is on the sidelines, don't include us in the NC discussion.

[rwperu34]

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Wisconsin is a good team this year, and pretty young as far as I know. I'm guessing they will be a contender next year. Michigan probably won't fall too far next year, depending on who stays and who goes.

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Here's a question, if they have another schedule like this...

09/02 at BGU
09/09 W Illinois
09/16 SDSU
09/23 at #6 Michigan
09/30 at Indiana
10/07 N'western
10/14 Minnesota
10/21 at Purdue
10/28 Illinois
11/04 Penn State
11/11 at Iowa
11/18 Buffalo

...and obviously they slice through it, does it hurt them? Surely they won't make another schedule like this right?

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9/1 Washington State
9/8 at UNLV
9/15 The Citadel
9/22 Iowa
9/29 Michigan State
10/6 at Illinois
10/13 at Penn State
10/20 TBA (read: cupcake)
10/27 Indiana
11/3 at Ohio State
11/10 Michigan
11/17 at Minnesota

[MEbenhoe]

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Wisconsin is a good team this year, and pretty young as far as I know. I'm guessing they will be a contender next year. Michigan probably won't fall too far next year, depending on who stays and who goes.

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Here's a question, if they have another schedule like this...

09/02 at BGU
09/09 W Illinois
09/16 SDSU
09/23 at #6 Michigan
09/30 at Indiana
10/07 N'western
10/14 Minnesota
10/21 at Purdue
10/28 Illinois
11/04 Penn State
11/11 at Iowa
11/18 Buffalo

...and obviously they slice through it, does it hurt them? Surely they won't make another schedule like this right?

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9/1 Washington State
9/8 at UNLV
9/15 The Citadel
9/22 Iowa
9/29 Michigan State
10/6 at Illinois
10/13 at Penn State
10/20 TBA (read: cupcake)
10/27 Indiana
11/3 at Ohio State
11/10 Michigan
11/17 at Minnesota

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The way the BCS works, Wisconsin has no reason to play a non-conference game harder than a Washington State type team when their conference schedule has Penn State, OSU, and Michigan. There just isn't an incentive there.

[MinRaise]

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sigh...back to the conference arguments

they are all pretty much even over time with slight fluctuations of who is better from one year to the next

ugh

I hate that I'm being made to stick up for the big10, but not only have Ohio State and Michigan won national titles, Wisconsin and Penn State have been very close. Purdue, Illinois, and Iowa have also won the Big10 over the time frame given earlier. There is depth there usually. This year was exceptionally bad.

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Northwestern also won it (twice I think, but not sure).

[jbrent33]

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I also don't think the SEC is the deepest conference, though they are the most overrated.

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Would you dispute either of these statements?

The SEC was the best conference in the country this year.
The SEC is the best conference in the country year-in-year out. (not every year, but consistently)

What do you mean by overrated? Most people argued that the SEC was below the Pac 10 this year. However looking back now on the whole season and the Bowls, it's pretty obvious the SEC was #1. They also have the most players on NFL rosters, so it's not just some media bias.

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How do people continue to say the SEC is overated? This blows my mind.

[jbrent33]

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posted a month ago before the bowl season
every conference is about even over recent history

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here are the sagrin conference ratings for recent years
there is alot of flux and small edges
with the sample size issues, it's tough to determine if the second best team in the fourth best conference is better than the champ of the best, etc

Current 2006 Conference
1 PAC-10
2 SEC
3 BIG EAST
4 BIG TEN
5 BIG 12

2005 Final
1 BIG TEN
2 ACC
3 BIG 12
4 PAC-10
5 SEC

2004 Final
1 ACC
2 PAC-10
3 I-A INDEPENDENTS
4 BIG 12
5 BIG TEN
6 SEC

2003 Final
1 ACC
2 SEC
3 BIG TEN
4 PAC-10
5 BIG 12

2002 Final
1 BIG 12
2 PAC-10
3 SEC
4 ACC
5 BIG TEN

2001 Final
1 SEC
2 BIG 12
3 PAC-10
4 ACC
5 BIG TEN

2000 Final
1 PAC-10
2 BIG 12
3 BIG TEN
4 BIG EAST
5 SEC


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The Sagrin ratings are hardly the best measure. Let's take a look. Team by team standings, before the bowls. I think anybody can look at this and see glaring mistakes.


1 Ohio State
2 Southern California
3 Michigan
4 LSU
5 Louisville
6 Florida
7 California
8 West Virginia
9 Boise State
10 Tennessee
11 Arkansas
12 Auburn
13 Notre Dame
14 Oklahoma
15 Wisconsin
16 Rutgers
17 Virginia Tech
18 Oregon State
19 Texas
20 UCLA
21 BYU
22 Oregon
23 Penn State
24 Clemson
25 Boston College
26 South Carolina
27 Arizona State
28 Hawaii
29 Georgia
30 Nebraska

[MyTurn2Raise]

ummm....Sagarin predictor is #1 at forecasting game outcomes

that is the only measure that counts in my eyes.

PS...I don't see what is glaringly wrong with that top25...seems better than the human polls

[MyTurn2Raise]

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sigh...back to the conference arguments

they are all pretty much even over time with slight fluctuations of who is better from one year to the next

ugh

I hate that I'm being made to stick up for the big10, but not only have Ohio State and Michigan won national titles, Wisconsin and Penn State have been very close. Purdue, Illinois, and Iowa have also won the Big10 over the time frame given earlier. There is depth there usually. This year was exceptionally bad.

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Northwestern also won it (twice I think, but not sure).

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they won it once in the mid-90s, but I wasn't sure that was within the time frame of the previous examples

I went with the conservative argument as I know those 7 have won since 2000.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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Wisconsin is a good team this year, and pretty young as far as I know. I'm guessing they will be a contender next year. Michigan probably won't fall too far next year, depending on who stays and who goes.

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Here's a question, if they have another schedule like this...

09/02 at BGU
09/09 W Illinois
09/16 SDSU
09/23 at #6 Michigan
09/30 at Indiana
10/07 N'western
10/14 Minnesota
10/21 at Purdue
10/28 Illinois
11/04 Penn State
11/11 at Iowa
11/18 Buffalo

...and obviously they slice through it, does it hurt them? Surely they won't make another schedule like this right?

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9/1 Washington State
9/8 at UNLV
9/15 The Citadel
9/22 Iowa
9/29 Michigan State
10/6 at Illinois
10/13 at Penn State
10/20 TBA (read: cupcake)
10/27 Indiana
11/3 at Ohio State
11/10 Michigan
11/17 at Minnesota

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ugh....Wisconsin and Iowa should be shot. They want to be considered big time programs, yet schedule like this.

No worries, Wisconsin will not come close to the national title playing that schedule anyway. The Big10 will be much better next year. I see at least 2 big10 losses with @ Ohio State, @ Penn State, Michigan, @ Illinois, and Iowa on the schedule.

[tdarko]

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The way the BCS works, Wisconsin has no reason to play a non-conference game harder than a Washington State type team when their conference schedule has Penn State, OSU, and Michigan. There just isn't an incentive there.

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Wait what? I thought the point of the BCS was the exact opposite of what you are saying. In the old days (I am a Husker fanatic FWIW) Nebraska would pay Lincoln High school 5 times (hyperbole) and then their Big 12 schedule and the way the AP polls worked was the best record went to the title game, the purpose of the BCS is to eliminate soft schedules and to actually take a look at who you play in case when the season ends and you have three undefeated teams or 4 1-loss teams etc.

This is also the reason USC was going to the title game above all 1-loss teams this year if they were to beat UCLA in that last game b/c they had a schedule like this:

09/02 at Arkansas
09/16 #19 Nebraska
09/23 at Arizona
09/30 at Wash St
10/07 Washington
10/14 Arizona St
10/28 at Oregon St
11/04 at Stanford
11/11 #21 Oregon
11/18 #17 California
11/25 #6 N Dame
12/02 at UCLA

Arkansas, Nebraska and ND non-conference games puts them in the title game. Bowling Green, SDSU, Buffalo and W. Illinois puts you in a non-BCS bowl with one loss. USC went to the Rose with 2 losses b/c of who they played, and there is a HUGE difference. So you simply can't say there isn't incentive b/c there is 12.75 MILLION dollars worth of incentive (between the Rose and Capital One Bowl).

But you probably also know that if Wisconsin played USC's schedule they aren't a 1 loss team too though right?