River Decision?

[ILOVEPOKER929]

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I think the flop is much close to a check then a bet imho

Brian

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I agree, but I cant totally be against a flop bet with the intention of checking the turn UI. Given the large pot size, we dont have to pull this play off very often to make a flop bet worth it.

[QueBob]

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6handed.

first orbit, maybe second. BB seems sort of loose and passive. UTG raised earlier with AJo and bet it UI the whole way. lost to A6o that flopped a 6. that's all i know(it was BB in that hand that he lost to).

anyway, UTG raises, i 3bet A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the CO(comments?), folds to BB who calls, UTG caps, we call.

So far so good.

Flop(12.5sb): K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, UTG checks, i bet(comments?), BB calls, UTG calls.

Bet is good, info.

Turn(7.75bb): 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

check, check, i check(comments?).

Bet, give them a reason to fold.

River(7.75bb): A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

check, check, and it's on me...

I check this back, flush is killing me, take the free showdown, check a strong hand, bet a weak hand.

what about how i've played the hand to this point?
You played this too weak shorthanded,

why are we doing what on the river?
Your chasing this to the river because of weak post flop play. Your turn check sealed your fate. They know you have nothing.


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[SNOWBALL]

this hand is EZ James. I'm a bit surprised you think any of the streets are debatable. The only semi debatable street is the flop IMO. However, I haven't read the other responses, or your reasoning, so maybe I am missing something.

PF is a fold vs an UTG raise even 6 handed unless you are playing 6max online and have stats that villain is an overaggro 6max player. Live I just muck, and smile inside when they show the inevitable TT+, AQ+. If they show A5o, or some other strange hand, then I make a note in my head, and next time I pwn them with my pocket sevens or whatever.

Flop is worth a bet. UTGs cap may have been weak, or he may wait for the turn to CR his flopped set, or maybe the board just missed him and he has JJ. If you do get CR, it's not the end of the world. We're trying to get to see the turn and river for 1sb.

Turn. BINGO. Free card.

River. BINGO, free showdown
After the turn check through, people will get paranoid you are bluffing because they showed too much weakness. Just check and hope your hand is good. When I have a weak made hand thst has showdown value in a medium sized pot, I tend to just check it unless I have a very tight image, my opponents are folders, and I am pretty damn sure my hand is not good.

[James.]

i didn't really have a tough time with this hand. i thought it was a semi-interesting spot on the river. maybe i was wrong.

it's aggressiveonline game that seems, and more importantly turned out to be, playing like a typical small stakes(2/4-5/10) table.

pf is marginally good.

flop is worth it. pot is big and UTGs line is odd. i think he has an underpair or a monster(two pair/set) here usually. if he's not bet/3betting a monster he's probably waiting for the turn some portion of the time.

underpair combos outnumber set/two pair combos. getting to the river for 1 sb is great, and given the price it's likely worth the risk.

there's not much straight equity value in a river bet. does the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ever fold?

[SNOWBALL]

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there's not much straight equity value in a river bet. does the 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ever fold?

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no
I think the better question is:
how often are you up against 2pair or a set, and how often will those hands fold?

[James.]

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there's not much straight equity value in a river bet. does the 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ever fold?

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no
I think the better question is:
how often are you up against 2pair or a set, and how often will those hands fold?

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what two pair or set checkcalls like this flop on that board? most always gonna see action in that spot.

IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS PEOPLE: IF THEY HAVE A DECENT FLUSH THEY'RE BETTING THE RIVER BECAUSE THEY'RE AFRAID IT'S CHECKING THROUGH. just wanted to make sure we're on the same page there.

it's pretty obvious how narrow by the river the range really is.

[SNOWBALL]

ok james, now you are just confusing me. Are you seriously considering valuebetting this river 3 ways?

[James.]

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ok james, now you are just confusing me. Are you seriously considering valuebetting this river 3 ways?

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no, not really.

[Aces McGee]

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flop is worth it. pot is big and UTGs line is odd. i think he has an underpair or a monster(two pair/set) here usually. if he's not bet/3betting a monster he's probably waiting for the turn some portion of the time.


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James, I don't think you're ever picking up the pot with a flop bet. The reason to bet this flop is to a)get to the river for 1 SB, or b)set up the hand to take it down with a bet on the turn and/or river.

-McGee

[James.]

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flop is worth it. pot is big and UTGs line is odd. i think he has an underpair or a monster(two pair/set) here usually. if he's not bet/3betting a monster he's probably waiting for the turn some portion of the time.


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James, I don't think you're ever picking up the pot with a flop bet. The reason to bet this flop is to a)get to the river for 1 SB, or b)set up the hand to take it down with a bet on the turn and/or river.

-McGee

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crap, i never meant to insinuate i thought i would win this pot on the flop. sorry if i came across that way. i meant it's worth it to see the river for the 1sb. i don't think i ever win it UI on the turn/river with a bet, either.

in the actual hand i checked behind. UTG had 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the BB had red nines.