Emotional Affairs

[katyseagull]

[ QUOTE ]

If you deal mostly with guys that are 22, you're going to get a lot of emotional immaturity. If you deal with 40 year old guys, you probably, in general, are going to see life experiences leading to a high emotional intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. Men get cooler and cooler as they get older. They become more relaxed and funny. But I've been pleasantly surprised with how easy going and sensitive most guys are in general, even in their early 20s.

When I say they are in control of their emotions I mean they seem to handle relationships, difficult marriages, stress at work and home very very well. They are able to switch back and forth between casual goofing around and serious intimate conversation in a way that I really appreciate. They don't turn on you and blab about confidences with other people. They don't get whiny or needy and they are great at offering very solid advice. I've noticed that most guys don't get all accusatory (well, accept for maybe poker players) but rather become philosophical. When they're going through breakups they seem to handle it with a maturity that impresses me.

After listening to both men and women talk for years, I can say that I think guys are very emotionally together. Yeah they may have their moments of self doubt but who doesn't?

[katyseagull]

[ QUOTE ]

do people expect that if they are married to someone for, say, 30 years, that that person will never fall for anyone outside the marriage?



[/ QUOTE ]

I expect the person I'm with for 30 years to fall for other women. I think it's a certainty. If I were a guy the thought of being with only one woman for a lifetime would depress me.

[tarheeljks]

[ QUOTE ]

-- i'm not ashamed to say that i would be devastated if my wife/gf <u>had an affair</u> and/or <u>left me for someone else</u>. this just means i'm human and have emotions.

First, I'd be crushed too. The tie in between love and fidelity is so ingrained in me that despite intellectually understanding they're different, emotionally I'm not sure I could.

That said, I underlined two things above. A key point is they aren't the same at all.

The first, having an affair, in theory shouldn't be an issue. So she enjoys time with someone else? That is about them, not you. Just like when you make love to your wife it's about you two, not about someone else and their lack.

The second is a reason for fear since it is about about you, about your losing something you value: her love and companionship.

People tie the two together, assuming loss of fidelity == loss of love/companionship. Why though? They aren't the same. And if you're really worried about loss of love, wouldn't an "emotional affair" be far more devestating than if she picked up a male hooker during a trip to Vegas?

[/ QUOTE ]

i equate loss fidelity to the loss of love for the following reason: in my previous post i talked about a relationship being a contract. i couldn't be with a woman who needed the freedom to sleep with other people while in a relationship w/me. obviously i can't force her to accept that, but if she does she is recognizing and agreeing to my desire to have a monogamous relationship. as a result, if she has sex with someone else it is indeed about me, because she has chosen to do it knowing that it will hurt me.

[ QUOTE ]
It's a pretty common fantasy for men to have their wife bring another woman home to their bed. Many are even fine with their wife having a girlfriend on the side as long as she tells him all about it later (the titillation factor). Why? Because it's another woman, not a man, thus not competition. There's no fear of loss. Yet, really, why is the gender of your wife's special friend relevant? Whatever they do is about them, not about you. The restriction is arbitrary based on personal fear (woman "friend" = not a threat, male "friend" = threat).

[/ QUOTE ]

that is a common fantasy and i recognize the appeal, but it is not one that i share. also, i'm not more inclined to let my wife/gf hookup w/another woman on the side. some people may say "wtf" at this, but that's how i feel about it.


[ QUOTE ]
Like I said before though, I feel as you do. I'd be crushed. I have found that thinking about it over the years has really toned down my insecurity levels though.

At the intellectually level it is something that I find intrinsically interesting. The attempt for people to rationalize basically negative behaviors (jealousy and posessivness) acceptable, or even positive, in the framework of a relationship.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think they are necessarily negative behaviors in the context of relationship



on another note, voracious reader said

[ QUOTE ]
So yes, it is realistic to expect your life partner to avoid entanglements that could damage the bond between the two of you.

[/ QUOTE ]


this may go w/o saying, but monogamy applies emotionally as well as physically. i'm not saying that i expect my significant other not to have any emotional bonds w/men other than me, but i expect her to avoid said entanglements. if we are in love, i don't think it's unreasonable/unrealistic for her to go out of her way not to hurt me. i would certainly do the same for her

[tarheeljks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Where do you draw this arbitrary line about what pleasures she can have and why do you draw it where you have?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'll have to think a little more about this. at the moment i can't explicitly state guidelines, but if you gave a scenario i could quickly tell you whether it would bother me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Giving you a scenario would defeat the point of the question [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. The point is to look inside and understand why you feel the way you do and then decide if that's really a reasonable way to feel.

Some men (I think earlier there was an example) will be "bothered" if you just look at their girlfriend or if she happened to just wave to a male coworker.

I think we can safely say most all of us find that way over the top. The question then is, where is your line and why do you think it's reasonable? Answering "because that's just who I am" really isn't sufficient since the over posessive maniac in the above example would answer the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]

heh, atm it's like porn-- i know it when i see it.

[Fishwhenican]

[ QUOTE ]
Men get cooler and cooler as they get older. They become more relaxed and funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya! I am cooler now than I ever was. Now, If I could only convince my kids of that!

[katyseagull]

[ QUOTE ]

i'm not saying that i expect my significant other not to have any emotional bonds w/men other than me, but i expect her to avoid said entanglements.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, entanglements are bad. Totally agree. But, er, a little friendly banter on an internet message board is ok, right? no harm there [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[bogey1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At the intellectually level it is something that I find intrinsically interesting. The attempt for people to rationalize basically negative behaviors (jealousy and posessivness) acceptable, or even positive, in the framework of a relationship.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think they are necessarily negative behaviors in the context of relationship


[/ QUOTE ]

And that's a common feeling. The challenge is to defend that though. You've made the statement, now back it up.

How are my feeling jealous and imposing restrictions on my wife's activities positive behaviors?

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think it's unreasonable/unrealistic for her to go out of her way not to hurt me. i would certainly do the same for her

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly, though given the abstractness of what might "hurt" you, it's not necessarily clear cut and may vary somewhat depending on your own insecurity levels.

We've all heard the tale of the abusive husband that says something like "I wouldn't have hit you if you hadn't pissed me off." That's at an extreme, but take that line of reasoning to fidelity, replacing anger with hurt.

How far must your wife go to avoid "hurting" you? How much does she need to live in doubt of not knowing really where that line is?

Yes, it's certainly reasonable (and expected) that our partners will make an effort to avoid situations that hurt us. It's not reasonable to expect them to get it right all the time. Nor is it reasonable to set the bar so high that they're going to fail all the time ("It hurts me when you look at men on TV, you should feel ashamed of yourself.").

Our jealously and insecurity and the behaviors associated with it put our wives in a tough situation of trying to dance around trigger points like an abused wife dances around an abuser's trigger points. That's where emotional abusers make their living...leaving you constantly guessing if it's <u>your</u> actions that are wrong when it's their behavior that's really the problem.

Just for clarity, I'm not saying you're abusive at all. This is just for discussion purposes. We all have our limits and feel pain for various, sometimes arbitrary, reasons. Just because we feel hurt though doesn't make it someone else's fault. Partners that communicate the best tend to stay together because they hit fewer problems with "unspoken" rules of behavior.

[tarheeljks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

i'm not saying that i expect my significant other not to have any emotional bonds w/men other than me, but i expect her to avoid said entanglements.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, entanglements are bad. Totally agree. But, er, a little friendly banter on an internet message board is ok, right? no harm there [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

nope, unacceptable












jk

[bogey1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

i'm not saying that i expect my significant other not to have any emotional bonds w/men other than me, but i expect her to avoid said entanglements.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, entanglements are bad. Totally agree. But, er, a little friendly banter on an internet message board is ok, right? no harm there [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

nope, unacceptable
jk

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you were joking, but internet "friends" have certainly been an issue before. A guy a few jobs ago divorced his wife over an email-only affair she had.

Online banter is ok.
What about flirting?
Cyber sex?
Phone sex?

If you're on a business trip and she's horny for a night, would you be ok with her reading an erotic story online while she takes care of things?

But not ok if she participates in an essentially interactive story via cybersex? Why the difference? She's alone in both cases, reading text in both cases.

It's ok to have a line, but two people may have different ideas on where that line is. If you're going to wait until the event occurs (i.e. "know it when I see it") then you'd best also be prepared to forgive and recognize she may not have realized she crossed a line because you both have different ideas on where that line is.

[katyseagull]

[ QUOTE ]

Well, like you said (though I snipped it), people are different. It's only happened in a couple cases, but I'll be with a female friend I like and find attractive. The sum is greater than it's parts and something will happen, a shared joke, excited about the same band/book/movie, whatever that brings a moment of emotional closeness. In that moment, I'll feel this wave of affection and I'll feel the urge to caress her cheek and kiss her.

I think, for me (if an attraction is present anyway) I instinctively want to show my happiness by physical actions that give pleasure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to say you sound like a hoot of a friend. I really appreciate your candor in this thread and have been enjoying reading your posts while I sit here at work. I've never met anyone who got the urge to be so affectionate just upon the sharing of a joke or discussion of a movie [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. You sound fun.