Play a Hand With the Masters Results and Panel Comments

[CardSharpCook]

This was pretty awesome. Thanks to Lloyd, Gavin, David, Andrew, and everyone else who posted in this thread. I must say, I was just as dissappointed Soss got his river bluffed snapped as I would be if one of my bluffs got snapped.

PF: 450 vs 600 -> Co usually calls either bet, but we can get him to make a bigger mistake by betting the larger amount.

Flop: Filtering through his ubiquitous negativety, Strassa makes some good comments. Speaking for myself the thought of checking the flop doesn't really happen. I guess I don't think about it that much, but the reasons are much what Strassa said.

Turn: I think this is a pretty strong set-up bluff type raise. I really like the size of the raise. Personally, I'm putting CO on 'a hand' (in this case KT) and I rarely try to ask people to fold 'a hand'. I am just calling here and folding the river UI. But I really do like the bluff play.

River: Yeah you really got to push here. It's just a huge psycological difference. It screams the question "why is he leaving 2K behind?" If you want to trick me into calling a VB with the nuts, bet like this.

Very cool excersise, I hope we get to do it again.

CSC

[adanthar]

I really like this concept and this hand, but I think Strassa is correct. Each street has to be considered as part of the overall picture, and as I said in my turn post, raising the turn given the flop check is actually very very likely to result in the perception of 'oh, it's a bluff'.

But it's a nice hand to analyze and I hope to see a lot more of them coming up.

[Lloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
I really like this concept and this hand, but I think Strassa is correct. Each street has to be considered as part of the overall picture, and as I said in my turn post, raising the turn given the flop check is actually very very likely to result in the perception of 'oh, it's a bluff'.

But it's a nice hand to analyze and I hope to see a lot more of them coming up.

[/ QUOTE ]
But is that more of a function of the structure of the posts or the actual analysis be each of the responders? I think the latter.

[Stipe_fan]

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All this talk about betting 5k vs 7k on the river is just pointless IMO.

He calls 5k he calls 7k.

-Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree with Jason. That is why I chose to check on the river. I don't think there was a bet that would convince him you have a hand or to lay down his hand.

I understand the line of betting the river if you had a read on him in a live game. Soss had a read of "not liking the turn bet", so this is information that could be real useful. Thus, I understand why he put in 5K, making it look like you wanted him to call.

Nice job Lloyd with this thread. It was a lot of fun!!

Stipe

[sirio11]

This format is excellent. Just see all the responses to the threads. This is the way a hand should be analized, because it's the way we do it while playing. When you have all the information about the turn card and river card, people usually respond results-oriented, that is, their analysis on every street are usually influenced by the cards they already know are coming next. Frankly I don't understand Jason comments; Why if we analize a street we're not thinking in the whole picture? I don't get that.

[Iconoclastic]

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raising the turn given the flop check is actually very very likely to result in the perception of 'oh, it's a bluff'.

[/ QUOTE ]

It could as easily be 'oh, it's a set'

A few things:

1) What does 'PCed' mean?

2) The single biggest "error" was the overrating of CO's tightness. I mean, a Tight player should fold KTo to a preflop raise for fear of domination/out of position, not to mention to a Turn-checkraise with medium pair.

3) You mentioned that by the time the River came up the entire table had breaked and it was just you two and the dealer. I noticed that there may be a psychological difference between making a tough call at a full table and just heads up. One would generally play Tighter at a full table due to the perception that since there are more people there is a higher chance of a better hand as well as not wanting to embaress oneself in front of the entire table. When you're heads up one loses the fear of embarressment and there's a vibe that since it's only 2 players the quality of hands out there decreases as well so a Call is more likely.

4) For close decisions such as deciding between 5k and 7k, just follow the old rule 'Trust ur first instinct- don’t 2nd guess yourself'.

5) Are we going to get new "masters" for the next hand or the same guys?

[AtticusFinch]

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AtticusFinch took a line exactly like Sossman.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite. I would have pushed the river. I really don't like the 5k bet. Of course, Soss ended up agreeing with me in retrospect, so perhaps that is what you meant.

In any case, great idea. Thanks to all involved. Can't wait for the next one.

[NoahSD]

If you could Soss, I'd like you to give more specific ranges for CO preflop, on the turn, and on the river. What hands did you expect a fold from?

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raising the turn given the flop check is actually very very likely to result in the perception of 'oh, it's a bluff'.

[/ QUOTE ]

It could as easily be 'oh, it's a set'


[/ QUOTE ]

Or "Oh, it's a straight."

[ QUOTE ]

A few things:

1) What does 'PCed' mean?


[/ QUOTE ]

Pot-committed.

[ QUOTE ]

2) The single biggest "error" was the overrating of CO's tightness. I mean, a Tight player should fold KTo to a preflop raise for fear of domination/out of position, not to mention to a Turn-checkraise with medium pair.


[/ QUOTE ]

He was priced in pf 'cause of the 3-way action. I am surprised he called all the way down, though.

[ QUOTE ]

One would generally play Tighter at a full table due to the perception that since there are more people there is a higher chance of a better hand as well as not wanting to embaress oneself in front of the entire table. When you're heads up one loses the fear of embarressment and there's a vibe that since it's only 2 players the quality of hands out there decreases as well so a Call is more likely.


[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.

[ QUOTE ]

4) For close decisions such as deciding between 5k and 7k, just follow the old rule 'Trust ur first instinct- don’t 2nd guess yourself'.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see 5k v. allin as a close decision at all. My Dad was a Poker pro briefly in the 70s before going to medical school. He taught me a little about the game when I was a teenager. He said, "Never bet everything you have except for bus fare home." There's an enormous psychological difference between going all-in and saving 10 big blinds, especially when you're covered by this much.

[sirio11]

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Your villain played very well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I think he misplayed almost every street.