Wynn 4/8 How bad is this fold?

[Cactus Jack]

Last orbit in my session. I don't really like playing at the Wynn. Table is chaos. Villain is loose and a pretty bad player. And I'm stuck for the session.

In the CO, I pick up KK, raise two limpers, who call.

Flop is 876 with two spades.

Check to me. I bet, get c/r by first limper. Second limper folds and I pitch my KK into the muck face up. Villain mucks, not showing.

My thinking--which might have been influenced by (very) minor tilt is he had a made hand and I was drawing dead. Even if I were still ahead, I had to dodge many outs for 2 more big bets.

Where I think I went wrong is since he didn't show, he outplayed me, maybe. He might have had an overpair to the board and was hoping I missed with AK or such...if he is capable of thinking at all, which we can't suspect. If he had hit the flop and made the straight on the flop, he would most likely have smooth called the flop and c/r the turn--which I would have done in his place. He might have just gotten overeager with his straight, which could be the case.

Comments? Is the fold really, really weak/tight in this game?

TIA,
CJ

[goofball]

Didn't we already have this hand somewhere before? I could have sworns someone already posted about folding KK on a flop like this? Anyway it's a retarded fold.

When you get raised on the flop holding KK in a limit game and there's not ace on the flop your response should be "let's stick more money in the middle"

[Cardiac]

I think calling is ok, I would not have folded. I may of reraise to get a better idea where I stand. If he caps it I call and check the turn. Then that would be my hard choice. I may just call him down. I have seen so many players over play top pair and the nut flush draw. If he has two pair you have a few more outs if you can pair the right card. I put him on a hand like JJ-99. A bigger PP he would of reraise preflop.

[BigBadBabar]

this is awful, sorry

[TheHip41]

if you think you are drawing dead, just call down.

What I would do, is call the flop c/r, and raise a non 5,6,9, or T turn card. Those I just call down.

Folding anywhere on this hand is bad.

[revlwb]

Depending on the player, I would probably call the flop and attempted a raise on the turn. You must at least see a turn card. Then flipping your cards over is a HUGE mistake as it shows all your opponents that you can be run over. You probably should leave the table at this point.

[nolanfan34]

Bad fold, as others have mentioned. Loose, bad players can have way too many hands here for you to fold this. And the face up fold, as others have mentioned, is bad. Since you're planning on leaving soon it isn't as big of a deal, but even bad players will play back at you if they see you can fold like that.

I'd 3-bet the flop and probably call down if it's capped. Depends on how aggressive the table has been.

[threads13]

Yes, its really bad.

Also, why did you decide to show your hand? To prove how good you are?

[HollywoodDB]

I agree with the rest, this is muy malo. People at these low limits loooove to slowplay thier big hands and raise on the turn. He usually has a strong draw with maybe a pair, I think you mucked the winner.

[JJNJustin]

Folding here or calling down is not nearly as big of a mistake as folding face up and exposing your cards.

You should never fold face up for many reasons:

1) It says, "I am not sure if I am laying down a winner, but I dont want to gamble with you, so I'm going to show you what you are making me lay down, so that if I'm right I gain some psychological edge, and if I'm wrong, I make you feel bad" All of this is stupid and unnecessary.
2) Most importantly, by doing this, you tell the whole table that you can be raised off your hand on scary boards, and this is really really really bad, worse than making a bad call down or a bad fold. People will remember this and use it as a reason to take shots at you all night long.
3) You unnessarily make him feel like a champ if all he has is A8 or TT. Had you folded face down, he wouldnt have this extra psychological edge on you because you wouldnt have given it to him.

If you decide to fold because your read is telling you you are a big underdog to have the best hand, you should muck and say, "You got me, I missed."

Going back to the hand, against a tight nitty rock I dont mind the laydown, provided you have some read and experience with the guy. Against an unknown or a tricky guy, you should just call down. Remember you have position on the guy and some turn or river card may slow him down and make his hand apparent and you can even get a value bet out of it or chose to check it down. When you have a big pocket pair, it makes it slightly more likely for others to have pocket pairs, and he could very likely have something like 99 or TT. Or he could have 9Ts and you could be almost dead.

Remember, they are going to c/r alot of hands, some that beat you, some that dont.

Those of you who are saying the OP is silly for folding are wrong and do not give your opponents enough credit. There are situations where I would definitely fold this. This flop did not help up at all, and could have easily given one of two opponents a better hand, or at least good draw. While I dont recommend just auto-folding, I dont think folding is the worst play, but it all depends on who is check raising. But dont muck your hand face up in this situation, ever!

-J