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#31
07-12-2006, 09:40 PM
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Re: Explosions Hit Bombay Trains During Rush Hour
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Am I capturing your argument correctly? [/ QUOTE ] Obviously not. You and the people supporting your position keep using statistical outliers to compare christianity to islam. (The previous post about the abortion clinic bombings, etc.) [/ QUOTE ] I haven't even taken a position; I'm a bit curious about the prisoner comment: "2. As to your second point, I'm not saying you're wrong, it is as much a statement about the types of people that are attracted to the religion as anything else (its the biggest attracting religion in prisons these day)." Please elaborate what you were getting at here. [/ QUOTE ] That I'm not saying that any religion is really inherently violent, just the people who follow it. I thought that was clear? [/ QUOTE ] And your evidence for that is that lots of criminals convert to Islam, correct? [/ QUOTE ] No... That's not what I was saying at all. 
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#32
07-12-2006, 09:42 PM
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Re: Explosions Hit Bombay Trains During Rush Hour
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Am I capturing your argument correctly? [/ QUOTE ] Obviously not. You and the people supporting your position keep using statistical outliers to compare christianity to islam. (The previous post about the abortion clinic bombings, etc.) [/ QUOTE ] I haven't even taken a position; I'm a bit curious about the prisoner comment: "2. As to your second point, I'm not saying you're wrong, it is as much a statement about the types of people that are attracted to the religion as anything else (its the biggest attracting religion in prisons these day)." Please elaborate what you were getting at here. [/ QUOTE ] That I'm not saying that any religion is really inherently violent, just the people who follow it. I thought that was clear? [/ QUOTE ] And your evidence for that is that lots of criminals convert to Islam, correct? [/ QUOTE ] No... That's not what I was saying at all. [/ QUOTE ] So what did this mean: "(its the biggest attracting religion in prisons these day)."
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#33
07-12-2006, 09:44 PM
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Re: Explosions Hit Bombay Trains During Rush Hour
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Am I capturing your argument correctly? [/ QUOTE ] Obviously not. You and the people supporting your position keep using statistical outliers to compare christianity to islam. (The previous post about the abortion clinic bombings, etc.) [/ QUOTE ] I haven't even taken a position; I'm a bit curious about the prisoner comment: "2. As to your second point, I'm not saying you're wrong, it is as much a statement about the types of people that are attracted to the religion as anything else (its the biggest attracting religion in prisons these day)." Please elaborate what you were getting at here. [/ QUOTE ] That I'm not saying that any religion is really inherently violent, just the people who follow it. I thought that was clear? [/ QUOTE ] And your evidence for that is that lots of criminals convert to Islam, correct? [/ QUOTE ] No... That's not what I was saying at all. [/ QUOTE ] So what did this mean: "(its the biggest attracting religion in prisons these day)." [/ QUOTE ] I don't know what else to say other than to requote what I posted 3 quotes up: [ QUOTE ] That I'm not saying that any religion is really inherently violent, just the people who follow it. I thought that was clear? [/ QUOTE ]
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#34
07-12-2006, 09:46 PM
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Re: Explosions Hit Bombay Trains During Rush Hour
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Am I capturing your argument correctly? [/ QUOTE ] Obviously not. You and the people supporting your position keep using statistical outliers to compare christianity to islam. (The previous post about the abortion clinic bombings, etc.) [/ QUOTE ] I haven't even taken a position; I'm a bit curious about the prisoner comment: "2. As to your second point, I'm not saying you're wrong, it is as much a statement about the types of people that are attracted to the religion as anything else (its the biggest attracting religion in prisons these day)." Please elaborate what you were getting at here. [/ QUOTE ] That I'm not saying that any religion is really inherently violent, just the people who follow it. I thought that was clear? [/ QUOTE ] And your evidence for that is that lots of criminals convert to Islam, correct? [/ QUOTE ] No... That's not what I was saying at all. [/ QUOTE ] So what did this mean: "(its the biggest attracting religion in prisons these day)." [/ QUOTE ] I don't know what else to say other than to requote what I posted 3 quotes up: [ QUOTE ] That I'm not saying that any religion is really inherently violent, just the people who follow it. I thought that was clear? [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Just help me understand this man. Clearly I'm too stupid for this, so help me out. No religion is inherently violent -- just the people who follow it; to buttress this claim, you cite that Islam is the fastest growing religion among prisoners -- ergo, violent people are attracted to Islam, right? Just help me, I want to understand your thinking process. Obviously, you're one or two levels above me, because I can't make sense of any of this.
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#35
07-12-2006, 09:52 PM
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Re: Explosions Hit Bombay Trains During Rush Hour
Dvaut,
I stopped quoting because the post is getting to big. I think that maybe you are reversing my cause/effect argument and thats where are are miscommunicating? My argument is merely: The visible effect that islam undergoes so much violence these days is caused by the fact that there are many people predisposed towards violence who are converting to/ practice Islam. (Ie: You get a lot of criminals, marginal people, people with emotional problems looking for a cause to fight, etc. etc.). Take for example, a lot of the recent domestic terrorists busts, a lot of them were converts from prisons. I am also not arguing that these kinds of people are limited to Islam (they are certainly present in all religions), nor am I arguing that all Muslims are these kinds of people, I was merely arguing that these days (and there certainly is an argument that you could say this of Christianity 1,000 years ago), but these days, Islam has the highest percentage of violent people/violence, as seen by world events.
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#36
07-12-2006, 10:03 PM
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Re: Explosions Hit Bombay Trains During Rush Hour
[ QUOTE ]
Dvaut, I stopped quoting because the post is getting to big. I think that maybe you are reversing my cause/effect argument and thats where are are miscommunicating? My argument is merely: The visible effect that islam undergoes so much violence these days is caused by the fact that there are many people predisposed towards violence who are converting to/ practice Islam. (Ie: You get a lot of criminals, marginal people, people with emotional problems looking for a cause to fight, etc. etc.). Take for example, a lot of the recent domestic terrorists busts, a lot of them were converts from prisons. [/ QUOTE ] Okay. But why? Why don't we see this in the 'born-again Christian' prison population? Many Christian churches actively evangelize in prisons, often with great success. Why is it not true, then, when prisoners convert to Christianity -- why hasn't Christianity seen a spike in recividist violence among converts? I don't have any empirical evidence readily available, but from what I know, many churches cite their success in rehabilitating the prisoner community that chooses to embrace their message. If your claim has any kind of normativity, we should see much violence in the name of Christianity, most of which could be attributed to former prisoners; again, I have no empirical evidence, but I can't imagine this happens often. What's different about Islam?
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#37
07-12-2006, 10:05 PM
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Re: Explosions Hit Bombay Trains During Rush Hour
[ QUOTE ]
I was merely arguing that these days (and there certainly is an argument that you could say this of Christianity 1,000 years ago), but these days, Islam has the highest percentage of violent people/violence, as seen by world events. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think you can make this claim with any kind of certainty; how can you know that Islam has the highest percent of violent people? It's such a vague, sweeping generalization, I suspect no such study has ever been done on the matter -- likely because it's almost impossible to prove.
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#38
07-12-2006, 10:06 PM
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Re: Explosions Hit Bombay Trains During Rush Hour
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Dvaut, I stopped quoting because the post is getting to big. I think that maybe you are reversing my cause/effect argument and thats where are are miscommunicating? My argument is merely: The visible effect that islam undergoes so much violence these days is caused by the fact that there are many people predisposed towards violence who are converting to/ practice Islam. (Ie: You get a lot of criminals, marginal people, people with emotional problems looking for a cause to fight, etc. etc.). Take for example, a lot of the recent domestic terrorists busts, a lot of them were converts from prisons. [/ QUOTE ] Okay. But why? Why don't we see this in the 'born-again Christian' prison population? Many Christian churches actively evangelize in prisons, often with great success. Why is it not true, then, when prisoners convert to Christianity -- why hasn't Christianity seen a spike in recividist violence among converts? I don't have any empirical evidence readily available, but from what I know, many churches cite their success in rehabilitating the prisoner community that chooses to embrace their message. What's different about Islam? [/ QUOTE ] I don't claim to have any idea.
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#39
07-12-2006, 10:35 PM
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Re: Explosions Hit Bombay Trains During Rush Hour
[ QUOTE ]
Dvaut, I stopped quoting because the post is getting to big. I think that maybe you are reversing my cause/effect argument and thats where are are miscommunicating? My argument is merely: The visible effect that islam undergoes so much violence these days is caused by the fact that there are many people predisposed towards violence who are converting to/ practice Islam. (Ie: You get a lot of criminals, marginal people, people with emotional problems looking for a cause to fight, etc. etc.). Take for example, a lot of the recent domestic terrorists busts, a lot of them were converts from prisons. I am also not arguing that these kinds of people are limited to Islam (they are certainly present in all religions), nor am I arguing that all Muslims are these kinds of people, I was merely arguing that these days (and there certainly is an argument that you could say this of Christianity 1,000 years ago), but these days, Islam has the highest percentage of violent people/violence, as seen by world events. [/ QUOTE ] This is almost definitely not true. The denominator is too large and islam has some competitors. cough, israel, cough.
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