Is this a donk move? - Page 2

chucky · #11 10-01-2007, 07:21 PM

Raising is an interesting line, but these tourneys players will call 2 bets with anything almost as often as 1. if I caught my diamond on 4th i would surely jam.

blumpkin · #12 10-01-2007, 07:45 PM

raising 4th street is a complete spew. this guy completed 3rd street and then bet into the entire field on 4th after catching nothing. he is going no where. you have no hand and need to hit perfect just to have any shot at winning.

why why why

electrical · #13 10-01-2007, 10:44 PM

I don't think raising is necessarily best, but it's worth considering. Let's assume you need to beat a pair of Aces at the moment to win.

If hero raises on Fourth and loses the deadwood, then he's wagering 1BB to win 4+BB on Fourth, likely getting a free one on Fifth, and about 4:1 dog (by eye) if it gets heads-up on Fourth. If seat 2 has a pair less than Kings (and he will some of the time), hero is about 3:1 dog, maybe as good as 5:2 if the pair is dead. It isn't a huge moneymaker play, but hardly spew.

Hero has enough invested as a percentage of his stack that trying to win what's in there is worth a shot, and raising Fourth is less expensive than calling a half-bet on Fourth and a full bet on Fifth. It only gets bad if the Ace re-raises, and that's pretty bad, so folding is certainly less risky.

I think a raise is worth considering if the temper of the opponents implies (a) that it will be effective in getting some of them out of the pot, (b) you won't get re-popped by the Ace, and (c) you are likely to get a free card on Fifth. If none of those things apply, then yeah, screw it, get out.

*TT* · #14 10-01-2007, 10:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
People who go around lecturing their opponents in low buy-in tournaments frequently don't know what the hell they're talking about. Here diamonds are very live, and the bettor's hand is a little dead. I can see two reasons for you not to call:

1. There is the risk of a check-raise, which you would hate. I'm guessing that that isn't too great a risk in this event.

2. That T60 represents a decent chunk of your stack, and you will frequently have to fold fifth.

In a cash game, especially a passive one, this is a pretty easy call. I think I call in your spot too, but I think it's pretty close. It's hardly donkish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Andy - if the OP was closing the action and there wasnt an A raising on 3rd then I'd agree its not that bad, as played I think its horrible.

Andy B · #15 10-02-2007, 02:40 AM

The guy who raised third street is also the guy betting fourth street. This is a small buy-in tournament. I'm not that worried about a raise behind me on fourth.

blumpkin · #16 10-02-2007, 12:29 PM

all options are always worth considering. but once you consider raising you will see that it is clearly wrong. also, i doubt you get rid of the guy who has 3 spades on his board. also, if you somehow make a flush raising decreases your implied odds. also, you have no hand.

*TT* · #17 10-02-2007, 01:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The guy who raised third street is also the guy betting fourth street. This is a small buy-in tournament. I'm not that worried about a raise behind me on fourth.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 3 people left to act behind you....The price of the tournament should not be part of the discussion, the optimal play remains the same.

Andy B · #18 10-02-2007, 10:01 PM

Low-limit players are less aggressive than high-limit players. That may or may not swing this to a call, but the size of the buy-in does matter.

chucky · #19 10-02-2007, 10:45 PM

I have played this pokerstars tourney quite a few times. It is a mixture of loose passive and loose aggressive players. The aggressive players will raise their 2 pair hands like crazy even in the face of a made straight or flush. The passive players will call down with small pair to the river in big pots trying to hit trips. When 3rd is completed people will not press the fold button on 4th unless they are having involuntary muscle twitch, I was counting on everyone behind me to cooperate and call 4th which they did.

*TT* · #20 10-03-2007, 12:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Low-limit players are less aggressive than high-limit players. That may or may not swing this to a call, but the size of the buy-in does matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

that isn't always true, in fact low limit stud tournys can be rather lagtastic . Lags and calling stations live equally in these low limit levels. Im sorry, I am not convinced its a good call. Oddly this is the first time in ages that I recall disagreeing with you.