how to convince potential players of a fundamental rule?

[KampfHase]

Hi there, [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I'm planning on playing poker (NLH) with some new guys & gals I recently met. Unfortunately, these guys & gals each apply individual rulings to the game. For example, they are not used to play with this rule:
A bet or raise must be at least the size of the big blind, or at least the size of the previous bet or raise in that round.
They told me: "You can raise to any amount you please (that means, if the BB was $10, one may raise to just $15).

Here is were the issue comes in:
- I want to play the game the way it is written down in RRoP, because I think that it's the most common and best way to play it (which would include the rule mentioned above).
I told them about my concerns and they asked me why this rule (raise at least BB/previous bet/raise) existed. They are probably of the opinion that this rule limits your strategical possibillities (because you are forced to bet a minimum amount that might not please your strategy).
Well, I stated that this rule prevented players from making annoying minimum raises (like, raising a BB of $10 to $12) that are just time consuming and that do not have significant impact on odds, and the like. Well, it appeared to me that this didn't really convinced them (maybe because they never heard of "odds, and the like").

So, thing is, I want to play with these guys & gals because I haven't been playing for some time, so I would sooner or later give in and accept this rule to be ignored if it turned out that I was not able to convice them, BUT: I am still trying to convince them and I was wondering if there are some more arguments that I could point out, that this rule in-hand makes sense and is worth being applied.

Long story, sorry if that bored you.

Thanx in advance. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

KampfHase

[PantsOnFire]

You could point out that by playing non-common and perhaps stupid rules, it will hurt their game when they have to play in a scenario where the more common rules apply. Strategies depend a lot on the rules so they would be developing wrong and perhaps even harmful strategies which would eventually cost them dearly in a proper poker setting.

If none of that works, then just come up with at least a set of rules that don't change and exploit them to the best or your ability.

[PBAR]

Continue to raise their bets by $1 or something ridiculously annoying until they comprehend why that rule is in place.

[icemanjmw]

[ QUOTE ]
Continue to raise their bets by $1 or something ridiculously annoying until they comprehend why that rule is in place.

[/ QUOTE ]

I second this suggestion.

Also, are you playing to have fun or try to make money? If it's the latter this might be the group for you as they seemingly have no clue about "proper" poker and therefore I doubt they have put much thought into good strategy. Look at it this way if you make a $10 bluff for example most players sensing weakness would raise you to about $30 or so. This group might just make it $12 therefore only costing you $2 to try to catch a miracle card.

Just my two cents

[KampfHase]

Hey there,

thanks guys for your thoughts; helped a lot. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Wesker1982]

My main argument would be the fact that its how it works when you play in a casino.

[frommagio]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi there, [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I'm planning on playing poker (NLH) with some new guys & gals I recently met. Unfortunately, these guys & gals each apply individual rulings to the game. For example, they are not used to play with this rule:
A bet or raise must be at least the size of the big blind, or at least the size of the previous bet or raise in that round.
They told me: "You can raise to any amount you please (that means, if the BB was $10, one may raise to just $15).

Here is were the issue comes in:
- I want to play the game the way it is written down in RRoP, because I think that it's the most common and best way to play it (which would include the rule mentioned above).
I told them about my concerns and they asked me why this rule (raise at least BB/previous bet/raise) existed. They are probably of the opinion that this rule limits your strategical possibillities (because you are forced to bet a minimum amount that might not please your strategy).
Well, I stated that this rule prevented players from making annoying minimum raises (like, raising a BB of $10 to $12) that are just time consuming and that do not have significant impact on odds, and the like. Well, it appeared to me that this didn't really convinced them (maybe because they never heard of "odds, and the like").

So, thing is, I want to play with these guys & gals because I haven't been playing for some time, so I would sooner or later give in and accept this rule to be ignored if it turned out that I was not able to convice them, BUT: I am still trying to convince them and I was wondering if there are some more arguments that I could point out, that this rule in-hand makes sense and is worth being applied.

Long story, sorry if that bored you.

Thanx in advance. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

KampfHase

[/ QUOTE ]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do!

Also, any additional option available to the players (here, the ability to bet any amount without restriction), must have the effect of enhancing strategic possibilities. This will work in favor of the better players - you need to figure out how to use it to your advantage.

One more thing - this rule is not an uncommon variation in home games. People think "no limit", and translate that to "any amount anytime, right"? So it's not a bad structure to familiarize yourself with.

I occasionally play with a group that uses this rule. One idea is to min-raise with a monster to ensure that the betting is reopened with overly aggressive players present. Another play is to do that on a draw, where some of the others are wary of the first move. It's also a tell against one individual in particular who always uses the first move. In games with per-round raise limits, you can also take the last min-raise to protect your draw. These are simple ideas, but I bet they will work with this group.

Keep your eyes open, think about it, and exploit it. Remember to enjoy it, and viva la difference!

[TexRef]

[ QUOTE ]
Continue to raise their bets by $1 or something ridiculously annoying until they comprehend why that rule is in place.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree in the sense that they only way that you are going to get them to go by the rule is if they understand why the rule is in place.

When I first started playing in a local home game I ran into the same problem.. Someone would bet $5, someone call the $5, then someone would make it $8. I pointed out that they couldn't do that and was met with responses like, "This isn't Vegas", etc.

After chatting with the host and some of the other players (who were mostly friends) about it they started to understand why the rule was in place.

Now the rule is always enforced ... even by some of those that were naysayers initially!

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]

After chatting with the host and some of the other players (who were mostly friends) about it they started to understand why the rule was in place.

[/ QUOTE ]

And why do you think the rule is in place?

[bkar824]

I think it's in place simply to prevent teamwork at the poker table, and to keep the integrity of the stakes alive. The "less then minraise" is also a great way to catapult another player into a big reraise, and it's an annoying way to find out information from your counterparts. Ie, if they bet ten, make it 11 and see if they reraise you with the nuts.