Micro FR discussion

[checkmate36]

We may have played together.

IHaveMonies on UB.

[Landlord79]

I was a break even player on AP for a year or two while I was learning the game. Then I moved over to Bodog and generated about $1500 in 6 months through cash games and MTT. I definitely think Bodog is a great place to generate a bankroll. It's uber soft and people call you down w/ AJ as high cards sometimes.

I quit playing online right after the UIGEA, but picked it up again after tworags.com gave me $12 for posting some cardroom reviews on their site. I got a $50 bonus offer from FTP about the same time. So I got Tworags to put the $12 into my very empty FTP account and this Thursday night I played some $2+.25 turbo SNGs and ran my account up to $31. I have $10/NL cashed gamed it since then because I really don't prefer SNGs and I have gotten my account up to just under $60. I prefer 3 tabling and hope to start 4 tabling soon. I've only earned $10 of my bonus account so far.

The addition of Gametime+ has really helped a lot, I recommend this or PAHUD to anyone playing online poker. The decision making process becomes so much easier when you know exactly where your opponent is in his aggression and looseness.

After UIGEA I pulled all but $20 off Bodog and that account is currently at $141. I kept the rest as a live game BR so that my wife never has to worry where my poker money is coming from.

I run about 25-30/10-7/4-2 on Bodog as a guess because I can't get Dogwatch to work there yet.
I run ~23/9/3 since Friday on FTP @ >10BigBets/100 hands (900 hands.)

If Barney Frank comes through, I really hope to make a run at it professionally, but without the lever of online bonuses and rakebacks, turning pro live will take a long time to accomplish.

[Landlord79]

[ QUOTE ]
Also need to learn to check the turn, but I don't know how valid this is at 10nl - thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking the turn is very profitable at any level. At least I can vouch for $10/NL.

[Bahuny]

I Started on Bodog with a $60 deposit in late November. 10Nl was my game through about mid January til I hit about $500. I was beating 10nl at about 45BB/100 in December. Moved through 25nl and am currently playing 50nl with a roll of about $2,400. I am up $1000 this month playing 25/50nl. It has been my best month by far. This forum has helped me enourmously. The only thing I regret is signing up without RB. I cringe everytime I look at the money I could be getting back every month.

[Landlord79]

Oh yeah, I was playing $25 NL before I liquidated my account.

[King Spew]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe we could discuss areas of our game that we need to work on.

What area of your game is possibly holding you back.



[/ QUOTE ]

OP,,, I might be in position to offer some advice. I have played hundreds of thousands of hands (true # is unavail) since I started playing online June 2005. I NEVER put my own money in play. I won a seat into a real money tourney when I won a freeroll. I placed in that tourney and won $40. My roll right now is about 5K after having withdrawn somewhere around 15K over the year and a half.

Over that year and a half I learned several "truths" about small stakes, one of which is that there are two ways to build a roll. Playing tons of hands and reading this site is one way. Taking shots and running hot is another. I've done both. The money earned from taking shots has ALWAYS been donated back fairly quickly. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] I never understood why the "playahs" would list BR management as their #1 asset... but I get it now. Now when I take shots I set a floor where I bail early. If I run hot, I always set the floor at half of "new" earnings before I drop back.
As an example, I was playing alot of 50NL in February and when raketherake sent me January's rakeback, I used that as a few half buy-ins on the 200NL tables (I play about 1000-1300 hands per night 4-6 tabling). I QUICKLY ran that up to 2K with the help of a 65s flopped boat OTB. I set a floor of $1K that I managed to play myself to by the end of the week....so I'm back down to 50NL, with ONE LARGE more in my BR.

Now, what I am going to tell you is: You MUST take shots. And keep a level head while doing this (protect your roll). Buy in shortish, not short. I don't like the shortie strat by Ed Miller as I find FOR ME, it's too limiting in my play. When I take shots, I'll buy in for 40-60% and play "normal" poker... it works for me where a different buyin percentage might work better for you.Be VERY aware of stack sizes as you ponder whether to enter into a pot. If you don't understand stack size issues, research here on 2+2. It is a KEY element to playing as a shortie, and playing against a shortie.

When you take your first babysteps up the ladder, you'll either get lucky, or fall. Set a floor. The first coupla times will be hard as you are adjusting to larger REAL dollar bets when you have been used to $1.00 PFR at 25NL, making a $4 PFR is hard. (Get a BetPot type program! because it's easier to bet 4 clicks at any level...don't chicken out).
The one thing that is GREAT about taking shots is that when the Poker Gawds give you some cards early in the session, it settles you down and you learn that you can play poker with "better players". Without cards, we all (in micros) lose money as you are playing with "scared money". I'm going to clue you in on something I THINK is true. Micros are tougher than 50NL, and most certainly tougher than 100NL.

HUH??? What did he say??????

As a better poker player now, I play situations about as hard as I play my cards. My reads are VERY important to my bottom line. I believe that the micros play tougher because the experience and skills gap between the best player at my table and the worst is HUGE. This makes poker reading so much tougher. I don't know if I can push a PFR off his hand with a PSB if I'm on the button with 72o. On a $100 table, I can make that move.... A LOT.

This brings me to point #3.... playing poker. You must learn to play postionally. Read Tien's fundamentals post. Often. I played several "styles" over the past year and a half. I was stuck on a style that worked OK for me for most of 2006.... consisting of playing lots of pots cheaply if I had a playable hand. To balance, I played AA-JJ AQ+ the same. I ran about 4BB/100 using this. I learned how to play lots of situations this way. Tien's post came out at just the right time for me... maybe it will for you too.
Tien's thread
It says 6Max fundamentals, but applies to FR just as well. I really don't want to get too far into strat as Tien does a fine job. The part of his post that I will stress is to be UBER tight OOP. I don't like AQo, KJo, 33, in the blinds through middle position. I will raise against some, fold against most. Pick your battles. Fight the right type of opponent.

What I will say is that since his thread came out, I have made most of my roll and withdrawls. While I was grinding last summer in the micros at 4BB, I would then lose in my attempts to move up.

I now have game.


Recap
(1) BR management
(2) You MUST take shots
(3) Positional TAG is correct in Micros

[Landlord79]

BRAVO!!! NH!!

[CaptVimes]

Spew, thanks for the post. NH

[ QUOTE ]
We may have played together.

IHaveMonies on UB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give you a "Supbro?" next time I see you. Hard to miss me. CaptVimes on UB.

[CalledDownLight]

Wow...all you guys have much better bankroll management that I had when I began, or for that matter probably ever will. I first deposited last January with $50 and ran it up to over $300 with tons of peaks and valleys in the next few months mostly from playing all kinds of sngs. Then I deposited another $50 and ran it to over $2k in like 2 weeks through a 4th in a $11 donkament and then playing HU way above my roll. I bounced around on this money hitting peaks and valleys and as I was on my way to busto I won a $22/180 for over $1k and had a roll again. I took this to NL600 6max and got 5 outed in a $2200 pot and went on supermonkey tilt and ditched half my roll in the next 15 min following this. After this I went on a downward spiral and almost went busto again and am still recovering from my devestated bankroll, but have tons of peaks and valleys even today.

Moral of the story: keep managing your bankroll well and you'll be fine.

[King Spew]

CDL... I don't want to turn this into "my" thread.... tho one of these days I may do a "The Well" thread.

My first topic was BR. It seems to be a leading topic and leading strategy throughout the pages here on 2+2. It just took me too long to realize.

The monkey tilt you describe is all too common. I've had it often.

When you take your first shots and run hot, you are more susceptible to monkey tilt than at any other time in your learning process.

"Hey, I'm Hot Schmitt. I'm up 2 BI at a table WAY over my head. Ship It!"
"Whoa, he just caught a great river, but I gotta pay him"
"GAWLL DANG< Friggin' two outter scumbag!"
"Man am I card dead. This ain't fair?"
"Well, I'll just put another BI out there. I can kill this table" (see comment #1)

Half hour later you realize that you've lost ALL the money you grinded the last three months for. Monkey Tilt.

Learn to control.

The second part of this lesson is:

"So King, if you're good and rolled for it, why aren't you playing higher?"

Valid.

The simple answer is..... I don't always win. I take my shot and lose two BIs. <font color="blue">Poker is patience and self-control. That's why we love the villain to have a high VP$IP. I'll often hear the tourney guys talk about not playing a hand for an hour or two. Think about that. Ring games aren't much different. Two BIs down and and I'm out. NOT QUESTIONS ASKED. Get out. </font> So I get out and "retreat" back to 50NL (or whatever level I am HUGELY! overolled for) and lick my wounds.

Think about it. You just got smashed 2BIs. But IT'S NOT 2BI's.... it's 4BI's (or 8 in my case of 50NL to 200NL). These latter numbers are the ones you understand. So a 2BI lose is kinda LARGE in a sense.

So you just got smashed and you come to the fork in the road. Do I turn left and rebuy to win it back? Or turn right and retreat? Dude and Dudettes, you're on Monkey-Tilt. Best plan of attack is to sit right down, pull out your backpack and find some munchies and chill out for a while.

Then decide which path.

I choose the right path now....retreat. I didn't always choose the right path.

<font color="blue">Edit begins here. The reason the left path is so bad is because you will most probably be playing at the higher table on Monkey-Tilt with SCARED MONEY!!!!! </font>

Recovering from a slight case of monkey tilt is sooooooo easy. It's the bad case that has to be avoided at all costs. Recover,,,, going back to 50NL, I'm back in my element. I get my confidence back. I'm recharging for my next battle at 200NL. No one at the table knows you just got spanked [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]. If you think in terms of success and failure.... I am a success for return so quickly.

I am not a failure because I didn't get over the hump this time.

<font color="red">But wait Spew, you didn't answer the question as to why you don't play higher </font>

I'm dodgy that way [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]. I'm over 50 years old and own a few businesses. My wife is a physician. We do better than OK. I am conservative with our personal bankroll. It is in my nature to be conservative with my poker BR too. This is a hobby for me. I enjoy playing cards. Period. (I was a tournament bridge player in my yute.) When I am incredible over-rolled for 200NL is when I will play there as well as I play 50NL. It is in my make-up.