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#1
10-29-2006, 09:35 AM
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Checking down when someone\'s all-in?
I know this is some kind of an unwritten rule - but how often to keep to it? For example:
You have like 9000 the others 1000 and 3500, the 3500 player puts the other all-in pre-flop and you call with JJ and hit a set. Will you still check it down? How about bluff-not-checking-down? 
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#4
10-29-2006, 09:53 AM
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Re: Checking down when someone\'s all-in?
This is a situation that is complex in practice but simple in theory. When considering betting someone out of the pot, what you need to do is add together the gain in equity from your increased chances of winning the pot, and the loss (or gain) in equity from the reduced chances of the allin guy busting. The complicated part is what you think those numbers are in actual hands.
I said "loss (or gain)" in the bit about the allin guy busting because there are some situations, such as when you're big stack on the bubble, where it's arguable that a short stack not busting represents a gain in equity for you, since you can keep bullying the other players. In general stack size is by far the most important factor to consider when deciding whether to bet. The larger your stack, the less you care about whether someone busts this hand and the more you care about chip EV. Even if you're short stacked, you should still bet in certain situations where you have a very strong hand. If you flop a set, for instance, the allin player will need to make a super strong hand (probably a straight or flush) to beat you. If he makes that hand it is extremely likely he will also beat the other player. There's therefore little point in keeping the other player in the pot, and you should bet him out to prevent him sucking out on you. Hands where there is a player allin are one of the most consistently misplayed situations in SNGs. There's nothing I enjoy more in a SNG than being big stack and getting berated by some guy for betting him out of the pot in a situation where I was perfectly justified doing so.
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#5
10-29-2006, 03:02 PM
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Re: Checking down when someone\'s all-in?
[ QUOTE ]
I know this is some kind of an unwritten rule - but how often to keep to it? For example: You have like 9000 the others 1000 and 3500, the 3500 player puts the other all-in pre-flop and you call with JJ and hit a set. Will you still check it down? How about bluff-not-checking-down? [/ QUOTE ] I would have pushed preflop with JJ. Anyway, EV of original stacks - 9000 .4287 you 1000 .2396 short 3500 .3317 mid EV of "If they call it's all over baby!" 13500 .5 you EV of you winning with no further betting 11000 .463 you 2500 .337 mid EV of mid player losing all in to you and you losing to short 10500 .4556 you 3000 .3444 short EV of mid player winning with no further betting 8000 .4185 you 5500 .3815 mid EV of you betting mid player out of pot or him betting you out of the pot or both checking it down and not winning 8000 .4082 you 3000 .304 short 2500 .2878 mid EV of mid player winning and him going all in with you calling 5000 .3741 you 8500 .4259 mid EV of of you losing all in to mid and him losing to short 5500 .3578 you 5000 .3472 mid 3000 .295 short So ideally if you're not going to win, you want mid stack to win with no further betting.
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#6
10-29-2006, 05:38 PM
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Re: Checking down when someone\'s all-in?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I know this is some kind of an unwritten rule - but how often to keep to it? For example: You have like 9000 the others 1000 and 3500, the 3500 player puts the other all-in pre-flop and you call with JJ and hit a set. Will you still check it down? How about bluff-not-checking-down? [/ QUOTE ] I would have pushed preflop with JJ. [..] [/ QUOTE ] Yes ok, this was just an example - my question is more about the ethics of trying to steal a sidepot - especially on the bubble (my mistake, put only 3 people in the OP)...
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#7
10-29-2006, 05:45 PM
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Re: Checking down when someone\'s all-in?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I know this is some kind of an unwritten rule - but how often to keep to it? For example: You have like 9000 the others 1000 and 3500, the 3500 player puts the other all-in pre-flop and you call with JJ and hit a set. Will you still check it down? How about bluff-not-checking-down? [/ QUOTE ] I would have pushed preflop with JJ. [..] [/ QUOTE ] Yes ok, this was just an example - my question is more about the ethics of trying to steal a sidepot - especially on the bubble (my mistake, put only 3 people in the OP)... [/ QUOTE ] Try not to worry about ethics in poker... Just do whatever makes you money & is within the rules.
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#8
10-29-2006, 06:00 PM
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Re: Checking down when someone\'s all-in?
[ QUOTE ]
I know this is some kind of an unwritten rule - but how often to keep to it? For example: You have like 9000 the others 1000 and 3500, the 3500 player puts the other all-in pre-flop and you call with JJ and hit a set. Will you still check it down? How about bluff-not-checking-down? [/ QUOTE ] You just really need to learn and understand the concept of EV and these situations are easy to think through. It is a huge pet peeve of mine that people can't do this and whine when I would make the correct play of value betting my set here.
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#9
10-29-2006, 06:18 PM
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Re: Checking down when someone\'s all-in?
Whyy wouldn't you push PF with JJ? The only time I would check it down is if I called with JT or something similar PF because of pot odds and then didnt improve.
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#10
10-30-2006, 09:02 AM
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Re: Checking down when someone\'s all-in?
[ QUOTE ]
You just really need to learn and understand the concept of EV and these situations are easy to think through. It is a huge pet peeve of mine that people can't do this and whine when I would make the correct play of value betting my set here. [/ QUOTE ] A pet peeve? Wow. Personally I can't get enough of it. Have you tried putting caps lock on and then pretending you're a retarded first timer in chat? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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