Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > Limit Texas Hold'em > Mid-High Stakes Shorthanded

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-14-2006, 02:12 PM
cartman cartman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,784
Default Can you get away from this?

Party (6-max). Input for any limit is appreciated.

An aggressive opponent open raises from the CO and it is folded to you in the big blind. All you have is stats on him--no reads on his postflop play and no history with him. You have 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and call. Flop is 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. You checkraise and bet any turn if he doesnt 3-bet the flop........

If certain turn and/or river cards determine whether you will call or fold please elaborate. Assume the board doesn't become exotic like a 4-card straight or 4 spades.

1a) If he is 30/20/2 and he 3-bets the flop then bets the turn and river, about how often are you showing down?

1b) If he is 30/20/2 and he calls your flop checkraise then raises the turn and bets the river, about how often are you showing down unimproved?

2a) If he is 45/20/1.7 and he 3-bets the flop then bets the turn and river, about how often are you showing down unimproved?

2b) If he is 45/20/1.7 and he calls your flop checkraise then raises the turn and bets the river, about how often are you showing down unimproved?


Also any general comments are appreciated.

Thanks,
Cartman
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-14-2006, 02:15 PM
Spy Dog Spy Dog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Beer tastes good
Posts: 5,193
Default Re: Can you get away from top pair heads up?

1a) 100% if an Ace doesn't hit. I'd probably call down an Ace river unless the turn was also a broadway. I'm probably check-calling an Ace/King/Queen turn.

1b) I'm calling this down, also. I'd really like a read in this spot and I think I'm good enough that it won't be a significant error either way.

2a) Same as 1a

2b) Same as 1b
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-14-2006, 02:22 PM
cartman cartman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,784
Default Re: Can you get away from this?

My current approach.

1a) I'm showing down almost always unless an Ace or a King hits the turn in which case I fold on the river. I probably fold over half of the time if an Ace hits the river. I check/call an Ace or King turn often too.

1b) I'm showing down almost always unless an Ace or King hits the turn in which case I fold on the river. I also almost always fold if an Ace hits the river.

2a) I'm almost always showing down regardless of the board.

2b) I'm almost always showing down regareless of the board.

I feel like a moron paying off here against players who are decent to good because it seems like they will usually be checking behind with hands that I can beat unless they happen to have a busted draw without showdown value.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-14-2006, 02:27 PM
cartman cartman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,784
Default Re: Can you get away from top pair heads up?

[ QUOTE ]

1b) I'm calling this down, also. I'd really like a read in this spot and I think I'm good enough that it won't be a significant error either way.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean you are a good enough player that you won't make a significant error either way or that our hand is good very close to the frequency which makes calling neutral EV and therefore neither choice will be a significant error?

Thanks,
Cartman
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-14-2006, 02:32 PM
Spy Dog Spy Dog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Beer tastes good
Posts: 5,193
Default Re: Can you get away from top pair heads up?

[ QUOTE ]
our hand is good very close to the frequency which makes calling neutral EV and therefore neither choice will be a significant error


[/ QUOTE ]

That one. I expect it to be slightly -EV, but a good indicator of how villian plays.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-14-2006, 03:45 PM
redbeard redbeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 422
Default Re: Can you get away from this?

cartman-
i agree with your current approach to scenerio 2a and 2b. as far as 1a and 1b go i think i'm showing down unless an ace hits at which point i am going to ck/call on the street the ace hits. if the ace hits on the turn then i'll ck/call that street and if i haven't improved on the river and the villan bets again i think i'm inclined to fold there; as the villan has now shown that he liked the ace on the turn and followed it up on the river so i should believe him and fold. if the ace were to hit on the river i believe i would just check and call there. then again my folded to river bet is pretty low so maybe my opinion isn't very good on this subject.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-15-2006, 02:37 AM
cartman cartman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,784
Default Re: Can you get away from this?

[ QUOTE ]
then again my folded to river bet is pretty low so maybe my opinion isn't very good on this subject.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folded to River Bet can be deceptive sometimes because it has a lot to do with how often you have the initiative on the river and also some to do with how aggressive you are an the earlier streets.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-15-2006, 11:30 AM
redbeard redbeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 422
Default Re: Can you get away from this?

thanks for the input cartman. do you agree with my assesment of your scenerios? in that you are probably going to showdown unless an ace hits the turn and the villan is then willing to bet both the turn and river. and that you would be willing to call pretty much everything else including if an ace hits on the river (maybe folding a king turn and ace river). with the exception of boards that become 4 flush or 4 straight.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-18-2006, 06:54 PM
Lost_My_Stink Lost_My_Stink is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Leopold Stotch
Posts: 21
Default Re: Can you get away from this?

I'm calling down every situation with the 45/20 guy. Against the tighter player, I would call down 1b, 2a & 2b regardless of the turn and river cards and only fold 1a if the turn and river brought any combination of AKQ.

So guys, and I spewing chips or is this justified?

P.S.
on second thought I'd consider raising the whole way cause I know running 9s are coming.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-18-2006, 07:54 PM
Nate tha\\\' Great Nate tha\\\' Great is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: blogging
Posts: 8,480
Default Re: Can you get away from this?

story's moral is:
when against a two plus two
wait until the turn
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.