6-max sucks. Weird spot?

Shabamabam · #1 10-13-2007, 02:23 AM

Just sat down. I think people with the nut wheel are gonna go ape even if a spade nails the river.

Is it worth a call here?

Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $8/$16
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5SB, 5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5BB, 5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, CO raises, Button folds, SB calls, Hero ???

Buzz · #2 10-13-2007, 02:45 AM

Hi Shabamambam[ QUOTE ]
Is it worth a call here?

[/ QUOTE ]No.

At first you seem to be getting 5 to 1 pot odds. But since you're only playing for half the pot, you're really only getting 2 to 1 pot odds.

Meanwhile you can count 7 outs as winners, 2 outs as enigmatic (the spades that pair the board), and 35 losers. I'd approximate by not counting the 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] one way or the other. But even if you count them as outs, the odds against making your flush are in the neighborhood of 4 to 1 against you.

You have to be very optimistic about getting in a raise on the river when you catch one of your 7 outs to justify calling a single bet here. Calling a double bet would be the equivalent of playing in a crap game where the house paid half of your bet for a winner on the pass line but took your whole bet for a loser.

Fold. You have unfavorable odds to call a double bet on the third betting round.

Buzz

prodonkey · #3 10-14-2007, 02:44 AM

Is it even worth calling on the flop with only 7 clean outs for 1/2 the pot? No way I'm callin on the turn for a double bet.

Buzz · #4 10-14-2007, 05:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Is it even worth calling on the flop with only 7 clean outs for 1/2 the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, ProDonkey. As a first approximation, I don't count the pairing spade one way or the other. Thus Hero has 8 outs out of 44 unknowns immediately after the flop, making it about 36 to 8 (or 4.5 to 1) against Hero making a spade flush on the turn. Meanwhile he's getting 4 to 1 half pot odds plus implied half pot odds of between 7 to 1 and 8 to 1 after the flop. So yes, it's easily worth calling a single bet on the flop.

It would be a blunder to fold the nut flush draw to a single bet after this flop, with 9 small bets already in the pot and four opponents.

Buzz

Olrik · #5 10-14-2007, 03:45 PM

and what do we do if we hit our draw on the turn and the river pairs the board? guess that depends on the number of players still in the pot? for one bet we will prolly always call?

RobNottsUk · #6 10-15-2007, 07:51 AM

Something noone emphasised, is that the flop call benefits from better odds than the pot odds imply, because it closes the betting round. With 4 opponents already in you have a clear call.

If the turn pairs the board, you wouldn't want generally to draw to non-nut hand.

But if you're on the river made the hand, and can close the betting, it's the chances of it being good, that determines whether the call is correct or not. If the previous betting makes you suspect a set was out there, then you'ld generally fold, unless the pot odds were better, if it seems quiet and unlikely that someone filled up, then you'ld generally call, even if the pot odds were worse due to small pot size.

In general you play tigher on draws if you're exposed to re-raises, bettor to your immediate right and field behind you, and looser when your call closes the betting.

With the nut flush, you migh call sometimes for 1 bet, but not a 2nd (despite improved pot odds), because it becomes clear to you the raiser filled up.