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  #11  
Old 05-28-2006, 02:37 AM
gehrig gehrig is offline
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Default Re: A Study on 3-Betting from the Small Blind

i dont really get why people would rather 3bet small pairs than QJo, JTs type hands against a steal
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  #12  
Old 05-28-2006, 03:35 AM
sweetjazz sweetjazz is offline
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Default Re: A Study on 3-Betting from the Small Blind

[ QUOTE ]
i dont really get why people would rather 3bet small pairs than QJo, JTs type hands against a steal

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends how often A high goes to showdown. Small pocket pairs have value against someone who is unwilling to release A high. Another small advantage to PPs is that they can withstand putting in lots of bets when they make a strong hand, whereas QJ/JT cannot unless they make the straight or flush (in which case they usually only get 1 additional bet).
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  #13  
Old 05-28-2006, 03:37 AM
TheHip41 TheHip41 is offline
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Default Re: A Study on 3-Betting from the Small Blind

[ QUOTE ]
What about calling ranges from the SB against the same player?

[/ QUOTE ]

you call in the SB?
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  #14  
Old 05-28-2006, 04:11 AM
gehrig gehrig is offline
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Default Re: A Study on 3-Betting from the Small Blind

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont really get why people would rather 3bet small pairs than QJo, JTs type hands against a steal

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends how often A high goes to showdown. Small pocket pairs have value against someone who is unwilling to release A high. Another small advantage to PPs is that they can withstand putting in lots of bets when they make a strong hand, whereas QJ/JT cannot unless they make the straight or flush (in which case they usually only get 1 additional bet).

[/ QUOTE ]
i dont really agree with ur second point. JTo makes two pair or better about as much as 44 does, and JTs does a decent bit more. in these highly aggressive situations i think jacks up is only marginally worse than a baby set.

small pairs just play really horrible postflop OOP against good aggressive players. if he folds to ur flop/turn lead it doesnt matter what ur hand is. if he raises u on the flop or turn u either make a marginal call down or let urself get bluffed a lot. even if he plays passively ur not in a great spot

its a lot easier for someone to have a second best hand worth seeing a showdown with when u have QJo than when u have 44

i'd be interested to see people's won @ showdown %'s for both types of hands after 3betting in the SB. i'll bet JT wins more often, and I bet the pots are bigger for JT too
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  #15  
Old 05-28-2006, 05:33 AM
helpmeout helpmeout is offline
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Default Re: A Study on 3-Betting from the Small Blind

QJo type hands are better 3way and better for semi bluffing

a PP sucks 3way OOP most cant take much action, they are good HU but I dont like anything below 55 OOP just too easy to be bluffed off the pot

HU OOP a hand like QJ well if you miss the flop what do you do? once you check you are saying I am very weak making it easy for people to play against you.

It has no showdown value so you cant just bet bet bet and expect to win unimproved. Hands like A8+ 66+ you can bet all the way and expect to win a decent amount of time unimproved.
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  #16  
Old 05-28-2006, 09:40 AM
The DaveR The DaveR is offline
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Default Re: A Study on 3-Betting from the Small Blind

[ QUOTE ]
i dont really get why people would rather 3bet small pairs than QJo, JTs type hands against a steal

[/ QUOTE ]

The BB.
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  #17  
Old 05-29-2006, 04:59 PM
redbeard redbeard is offline
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Default Re: A Study on 3-Betting from the Small Blind

i think i treat utg and utg+1 raises similarily 3 betting with a7s, ato, kts, kjo, 77; and then from co i 3 bet with a6s, a9o, k9s, kto, 66; vs button i 3 bet with a6s, ato, k9s, kto, qjs, 66. but i can see from other posters i need to be less rigid in terms of grouping utg and utg+1 together and i need to add some more vs button steal raise too.
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  #18  
Old 05-31-2006, 04:02 PM
redbeard redbeard is offline
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Default Re: A Study on 3-Betting from the Small Blind

does anyone else treat utg and utg+1 raises similarly or am i really missing the boat and need to treat them differently? i certainly treat co and button raises differently, but as for the first two spots when i originally formulated my starting hand guidelines i treated them the same. i realize people's raising standards are slightly different in those two spots but is it really different enough to have different guidelines for the two spots? any input would be appreciated.
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  #19  
Old 05-31-2006, 06:01 PM
Rudis Rudis is offline
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Default Re: A Study on 3-Betting from the Small Blind

I think my vpip changes from 20 to 27 from utg to hijack, so certainly play different defending the blinds vs me.
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