PNL Study Group Day 3: Pot Size

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I'm assuming we want to stay away from making the pot over 4 times the remaining smallest stack and folding since that's the committment threshold.


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FYP

[Matt Flynn]

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Also, I was curious about where the blurry line is when it comes to big pot vs. small pot. Are we saying once 1/3 of the smallest stack goes in we are big pot world?

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it is blurry. might use SPR of 4 because i like to plan ahead, but it's your call where you want to set that line.


Grunch's comment that it depends on how likely your opponent will go all-in is spot on imo.

[monkeymaps]

Qtip: to address point 1

I think a more open preflop raising range is more optimal for online 6max just because c-bets work so frequently and you have better position more often than in FR

I often limp ALOT in live FR 1/2 NL games where the stacks are pretty deep usually 300-1200 dollars. These players play so bad postflop I think you are losing alot of money by pricing out bad players preflop. which is pretty opposite the 2+2 general stlyle of play and I get some flack for but w/e. intersted what others think about this.

[Matt Flynn]

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I think a more open preflop raising range is more optimal for online 6max just because c-bets work so frequently and you have better position more often than in FR

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works well in position. in the bigger games often the button will call behind.

so when selecting a seat you want a tight player on the button so you get to act last postflop more often.


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I often limp ALOT in live FR 1/2 NL games where the stacks are pretty deep usually 300-1200 dollars. These players play so bad postflop I think you are losing alot of money by pricing out bad players preflop. which is pretty opposite the 2+2 general stlyle of play and I get some flack for but w/e. intersted what others think about this.

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if it makes you more money then it's good. my only concern would be make sure you're counting all the little losses to know whether those limps are truly profitable, and adequately comparing your limps to raises to see that EV[limping] > EV[raising].

one thing is that when a limper fires big he tends to get more credit than someone cbetting.

[Sunny Mehta]

QTip, the best gauge for how big or small a pot is, is SPR. It basically tells you in one number.

EDIT: see clarification below

[Aviston]

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QTip, the best gauge for how big or small a pot is, is SPR. It basically tells you in one number.

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With regards to SPR, at what SPR would a pot begin to be considered "big"?

[Grunch]

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QTip, the best gauge for how big or small a pot is, is SPR. It basically tells you in one number.

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With regards to SPR, at what SPR would a pot begin to be considered "big"?

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Although you will probably get a fairly specific response, it's my opinion that thinking in even fairly rigid terms can be extremely dangerous. For example, you could have 2 hands with the exact same SPR and one hand is a big pot while the other is a small pot simply because of a difference in how the opponents play postflop.

Edit: to clarify, if you are playing a hand and it is likely that no matter what happens you or your opponent will commit, you're playing a big pot.

[Sunny Mehta]

Grunch,

Yeah, I'd say in general I think of "big pot" as meaning "need to start thinking about commitment decision" or "need to start making a commitment plan".

[Sunny Mehta]

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QTip, the best gauge for how big or small a pot is, is SPR. It basically tells you in one number.

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With regards to SPR, at what SPR would a pot begin to be considered "big"?

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Let me clarify:

Actually, The Commitment Threshold is the big tool you can use to gauge if you're getting into a big pot. (I.e. - Pot is one-fourth of the remaining money.) SPR is a great gauge at the start of the flop. (And If you have an SPR of 4 you are at the threshold.) But you'll still need to be aware of the commitment threshold (and general stack/pot considerations) on later streets.

[Aviston]

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QTip, the best gauge for how big or small a pot is, is SPR. It basically tells you in one number.

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With regards to SPR, at what SPR would a pot begin to be considered "big"?

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Let me clarify:

Actually, The Commitment Threshold is the big tool you can use to gauge if you're getting into a big pot. (I.e. - Pot is one-fourth of the remaining money.) SPR is a great gauge at the start of the flop. (And If you have an SPR of 4 you are at the threshold.) But you'll still need to be aware of the commitment threshold (and general stack/pot considerations) on later streets.

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Alright, so a effective stack to pot ratio of 4 would indicate the threshold and be entering, generally, into big pot territory (I did not use SPR specifically because you have reserved its use at the final preflop pot only).