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Old 11-21-2007, 03:38 PM
Nichomacheo Nichomacheo is offline
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Default HUSNG Strategy -- 3-Betting vs Shoving

There's a point during HUSNGs when the stacks become too shallow to 3-bet and then face a flop OOP with something like a pot size bet left.

For example, you're the big blind with AK, effective stacks are 1100. Your opponent raises to 150 and its your turn to act. If you 3-bet to say, 350, the pot will be 700 on the flop and you'll have 750 left. You have little room to maneuver, since you're left with 1 PSB. If you're the type who will shove any flop, your opponent is now getting great odds on your stack.

With stacks of 1500, it works out a bit better. Pot will be 750, but this time you have 1150 behind. You can still play some postflop poker.

I'd like to hear some other peoples' thoughts on these type of spots and how you approach them. Are you only 3-betting (without shoving) with high pocket pairs? Is there any argument for 3-betting without shoving with a hand like AK with 1 PSB on the flop (other than balancing your range)? Meaning, are shoving with AK type hands only and not your QQ+ too?

Anyone like to bluff 3-bet fake-commit? IE, you raise to 400 because it looks so strong, but you do it with weak hands, hoping to just pick up the pot.

Thanks,
N
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  #2  
Old 11-21-2007, 04:13 PM
abcjnich abcjnich is offline
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Default Re: HUSNG Strategy -- 3-Betting vs Shoving

good for you, figuring out poker. but seriously, this is exactly why cash games take more skill. cash games you're potentially playing poker all the way to the river on most hands. sngs with small stacks there is usually only room to play poker for two streets including preflop.

in the Ak situation im either calling or raising to 750+. in the 1500 situation im probably just calling because over 3betting all in sucks and a smaller 3bet gives no room to maneuver postflop.
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Old 11-21-2007, 04:24 PM
jay_shark jay_shark is offline
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Default Re: HUSNG Strategy -- 3-Betting vs Shoving

From an EV point of view , there is very little if you re-raise or shove with this hand . Since , you will likely get it on the flop anyway . So to determine which play is superior is to determine the amount of flop fold equity you have being oop . If your opponent will fold many better hands on the flop whether you miss or hit , then re-raising and shoving otf may be superior . Otherwise , there is nothing wrong with pushing all in pre-flop .
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Old 11-21-2007, 04:40 PM
citrus citrus is offline
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Default Re: HUSNG Strategy -- 3-Betting vs Shoving

In these spots with AK and sometimes with other Medium to large non premium pairs, I like 3 betting to half my stack OOP with the intention of pushing just about any flop.

I especially like playing AK "stop and go" like this. You are typically no worse than coin flip, they may fold to "stop and go" bet on flop. I beleive the +EV side of this play is the frequency people call and play back with KQ,KJ + Ax, which you dominate.

Citrus
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  #5  
Old 11-21-2007, 05:17 PM
daveT daveT is offline
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Default Re: HUSNG Strategy -- 3-Betting vs Shoving

abc.....

You are talking about 25/50 level here, I assume. I don't think it matters either way what you do. I think that straight out shoving PF is better because you are more likely to call with weaker aces, or even KQ, than on the flop, where they will toss away the hand once they miss, regardless if they are getting odds or not.
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  #6  
Old 11-21-2007, 05:35 PM
cwar cwar is offline
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Default Re: HUSNG Strategy -- 3-Betting vs Shoving

It most certainly matters especially against weak players who will call 3bets with a wide range but not a shove and these players are PLENTIFUL even above the 110s 3betting and leaving about a PSB then shoving extracts way more from these type of players, its commonly known as a 'go and go' you can even do it with hands taht have no value because it works so often.
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