How should I play overpairs oop?

[Matt Flynn]

[ QUOTE ]


Taking some strategy and viewpoints from PNL...

We can look at this hand in terms of Stack-to-Pot-Ratio, or SPR. SPR is the amount of $$ that's in the flop as a ratio of the smallest stack in play. So, in this case, the flop is ~$200 and the smallest stack in play after the preflop action is about ~$600, giving an SPR of ~3.

Generally, with overpairs/TPTK type of hands, it is "okay" to commit all your chips when your SPR is 4.5ish, and still be +EV. So, with an SPR of 3 in this RR pot, you should not be looking to "minimize my losses", but rather, to get all the chips in some way or another. By betting flop, then pushing turn, it accomplishes that well.

I've been following this guideline, but I'm not exactly too sure of how true the +EV statement is just yet.

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here's how I'd use SPR on these hands. same outcome as many posters. worst hands you want to fight against are bigger pair >> pair >> others b/c they have the most equity against you ("expectation" if you have difficulty using "equity" as a forward term). in both your hands, a bigger reraise preflop, which is still well within bounds of the game's raise sizes, would make it impossible for any hand weaker than yours to draw profitably. for example:

Hand 1: $24 raiser has a $696 starting stack. If you reraise pot to $81 and he calls, there's $169 in the pot and $616 behind. That's about SPR of 3.6. You've already won some Sklansky bucks. Opponent cannot draw with any hand for $80 with $616 behind. So that's a compelling reason to pot it. If he folds a lot to pot-sized bets, make more of them. (It's very close for him to draw with a pair even for your $56 reraise, and you do NOT have to force a mistake with every bet.)

Once you hit the flop, you can improve on "blind" commitment. Play poker. If you think the guy's got you beat more often than the implied odds justify, fold. Provided you're right, you make more money.


Same in the second hand. because you knew you'd very likely be up against one "short" stack if you saw the flop, a pot-sized reraise strengthens your position. you don't have to go broke postflop, but if you blindly committed with an overpair you would still have positive expectation.


another benefit of the pot-sized reraise: when your opponents won't steal a lot of pots from you, every dollar that goes in preflop with weaker hands than yours earns you money. here you will commit often, so you definitely like getting more money in preflop.

also, if your bets get no action, randomize in some suited connectors and AK. you LOVE taking down the preflop pot with those. if they'll fold most of the time that bet alone makes money. you freeroll on hitting your hand. plus you aggravate people with your aggression, which can work to your favor whenever you have a good hand. once they start playing back at you, tighten up. a lot of this requires "feel," but it works.

[Newman30]

Thanks for your post overun and especially Matt Flynn. It is very nice to hear some background strategy instead just monosyllables ;-). That was exactly what I was looking for. Much appreciated, thank you.

I have already heard about SPR, though I have not read about it yet, but I'm planning to, maybe in "Professional no-limit hold’em: volume one" by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta and Matt Flynn!! I'm amazed that you are the Co-author Matt.

In a reraised pot, and normal stacks the SPR will almost always be below 4.5 (that is according to what overrun is saying). Hence it should be okay to commit with an overpair or TPTK. I believe this to be theoretically correct. I also implies that you can commit every time with an overpair, in a reraised pot (where the shortest stack is approx “normal” that is 100BB), but I don’t like the idea of never folding an overpair in this situation, sometimes I do believe it is correct to fold an overpair here, though it is rare (1 in eight to ten times maybe, around the same times as the a weaker hand would have outdrawn you) I like your comment here Matt.

[ QUOTE ]

Once you hit the flop, you can improve on "blind" commitment. Play poker. If you think the guy's got you beat more often than the implied odds justify, fold. Provided you're right, you make more money.
[/qoute]

It is a good idea to switch on the brain instead of playing blind commitment in these situations, it will give +EV in the long run. I require a lot of “feel” as you say, and that takes experience of course. I just love theory and general guidelines, to make the “feel” more precise and even better, and to make sure that the “feel” is not way off.

[ QUOTE ]

also, if your bets get no action, randomize in some suited connectors and AK. you LOVE taking down the preflop pot with those. if they'll fold most of the time that bet alone makes money. you freeroll on hitting your hand. plus you aggravate people with your aggression, which can work to your favor whenever you have a good hand. once they start playing back at you, tighten up. a lot of this requires "feel," but it works.


[/ QUOTE ]

I do a lot of this, sometimes I even reraise with air, if there is a high probability of that the raiser will fold. Example: he has been raising a lot, I haven’t been reraising at all, and he is “good player” capable of folding to a reraise ofcourse).

I do agree with a lot of posters to make the reraise more than pot when you are oop. It is hard to control the pot in any way oop, and therefore it’s hard not to end up all in, even though you think you are beat. In position you have a better chance of getting to a cheap(er) showdown in case you want to. I have already begun making my oop reraises a little more than pot (approx 10%). My in position raises are still approx. pot.

[Newman30]

READ THIS POST INSTEAD OF THE ONE ABOVE, THE QUOTES ARE NOT F.. UP IN THIS ONE.

Thanks for your post overun and especially Matt Flynn. It is very nice to hear some background strategy instead just monosyllables [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] . That was exactly what I was looking for. Much appreciated, thank you.

I have already heard about SPR, though I have not read about it yet, but I'm planning to, maybe in "Professional no-limit hold’em: volume one" by Ed Miller, Sunny Mehta and Matt Flynn!! I can't believe you are the co-author Matt. I didn't notice before I copied and pasted the title - pretty cool.

In a reraised pot (3-bet called preflop), and normal stacks the SPR will almost always be below 4.5 (that is according to what overrun is saying). Hence it should be okay to commit with an overpair or TPTK. I believe this to be theoretically correct. I also implies that you can commit every time with an overpair, in a reraised pot (where the shortest stack is approx “normal” that is 100BB), but I don’t like the idea of never folding an overpair in this situation, sometimes I do believe it is correct to fold an overpair here, though it is rare (1 in eight to ten times maybe, around the same times as the a weaker hand would have outdrawn you) I like your comment here Matt.

[ QUOTE ]

Once you hit the flop, you can improve on "blind" commitment. Play poker. If you think the guy's got you beat more often than the implied odds justify, fold. Provided you're right, you make more money.


[/ QUOTE ]

It is a good idea to switch on the brain instead of playing blind commitment in these situations, it will give +EV in the long run. I require a lot of “feel” as you say, and that takes experience of course. I just love theory and general guidelines, to make a base for what you are doing, and to make sure your intuition is not way off. On top of the theory and guidelines you can play poker and improvise as madly as you want to.

[ QUOTE ]

also, if your bets get no action, randomize in some suited connectors and AK. you LOVE taking down the preflop pot with those. if they'll fold most of the time that bet alone makes money. you freeroll on hitting your hand. plus you aggravate people with your aggression, which can work to your favor whenever you have a good hand. once they start playing back at you, tighten up. a lot of this requires "feel," but it works.


[/ QUOTE ]

I do a lot of this, sometimes I even reraise with air, if there is a high probability of that the raiser will fold. Example: he has been raising a lot, I haven’t been reraising at all, and he is capable of folding to a reraise ofcourse.

I do agree with a lot of posters to make the reraise more than pot when you are oop. It is hard to control the pot in any way oop, and therefore it’s hard not to end up all in, even though you think you are beat. In position you have a better chance of getting to a cheap(er) showdown in case you want to. I have already begun making my oop reraises a little more than pot (approx 10%). My in position raises are still approx. pot.