Slate.com on race and IQ

[Rduke55]

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It's a shorthand term for ethnic origin.

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No it's not. Haven't you been paying attention in all the threads where we've had the exact same discussion? When we are talking about heredity, ethnicity certainly does not equal race.
"Ashkenazi jew" = ethnicity; "white" = race. People seem to confuse (whether intentionally or not) these all the time in these threads.

If anyone from the other side used some kind of "shorthand" in this apparently scientific debate you would probably jump all over them. The debate over a biological notion of race is a major point in this discussion.

[Rduke55]

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The wealthiest black kids with college educated black parents outdoing the poorest Asian kids with uneducated parents (hint: they don't, which is shocking and instantly debunks a lot of proposed mechanisms for the gap).

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Citation?

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Poor, malnourished rural Asian groups scoring on par with poor, malnourished blacks in their home countries (hint: they don't. The poorest East Asians even outdo whites)

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Citations?

[West]

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Based on the wording and context of your post, we are in agreement that discrepancies exist between Whites, Blacks, Asians, Ashkhenazi Jews, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is a fair statement to make, otherwise you wouldn't even be trying to argue the difference in semantics.

So, what differences are there in all the groups I mentioned above? Clearly the answer is race/genetic lineage/ethnic origin/whatever. How is it wrong to say that these RACIAL DISCREPANCIES are INNATE to the RACES from which we are drawing our comparisons? I mean, it's not like the discrepancies are conjured out of thin air and bear no relation to race, right?


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What's also different between "races" is their environmental history. In addition to the Flynn effect, how do you explain this ?

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As for immutable, I'm no biologist, but if memory serves, there exists some difference in the tendon structure of Blacks, which, among other things, enables them to perform better in activities requiring running, jumping, and other forms of physical performance. Explain to me how this difference is "mutable," short of some sort of surgical procedure.

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The same way it's always been mutable, evolution?

Could 200 years of slavery have had an impact? I don't know the answer, I'm asking the question.

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Seriously, every single study (academic, government, private, military) conducted on this topic in the history of ever has resulted in a material IQ discrepancy between races. Don't even bother with the "define IQ or it's meaningless" drivel. It's like pornography, I may not be able to clearly define it, but it's pretty apparent when I see it. The fact of the matter is that Blacks (mean IQ 70-85), who have been given every opportunity for success over the past 2 generations consistently perform 2-3 standard deviations less than the group that has been discriminated against more than any other group in world history (Jews, mean IQ = 110-115).

Immutable? I think so.


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You talk about meaningless drivel even as you're spewing it out. As Taraz indicated it's difficult to know where to start with so many fallacious arguments all at once.

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Edited for link: http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/10/race-difference.html

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It's easier to seperate the speculation out from the link you provided if you follow the links he provides:

link ; link

[kurto]

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I'm studying psychology and neuroscience right now, so forgive me if I trust my reading of the literature more than yours.


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So very much explained in one sentence. My hope is that in less than 20 years you discover exactly how much garbage you've been shoveled under the banner of academic literature. Best luck.

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How does this compare to the garbage you regularly shovel in this forum?

[kurto]

I thought this part was funny enough...

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The fact of the matter is that Blacks (mean IQ 70-85), who have been given every opportunity for success over the past 2 generations consistently perform 2-3 standard deviations less than the group that has been discriminated against more than any other group in world history (Jews, mean IQ = 110-115).


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blacks have been given every opportunity for success? Wow. I didn't realize that racism has been purged for 2 generations now.

I've been working in NYC for 15 years now. I've had instances where people have questioned hiring a black person because they're black. Oddly enough, I've NEVER heard anyone question whether they'd hire someone simply because they're Jewish.

I've also seen people cross the street to avoid having to pass by a group of blacks. Oddly enough, I've never heard of anyone crossing the street to avoid a jew.

I must be living in the only place where, for the last two generations, people are still racist. Obviously White Knight lives in a color blind community and sees things differently.

[vhawk01]

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that much is obvious

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Is only a good burn if we take this thread to be the be-all and end-all of information / wisdom pertaining to this debate. Suffice it to say I've conducted a fair amount of independent research which correlates nicely with my life experiences to date.

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Believing that discrepancies between races exist, and that they are innate and immutable, are two different things.

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My BS detector is going off in a major way...

Based on the wording and context of your post, we are in agreement that discrepancies exist between Whites, Blacks, Asians, Ashkhenazi Jews, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is a fair statement to make, otherwise you wouldn't even be trying to argue the difference in semantics.

So, what differences are there in all the groups I mentioned above? Clearly the answer is race/genetic lineage/ethnic origin/whatever. How is it wrong to say that these RACIAL DISCREPANCIES are INNATE to the RACES from which we are drawing our comparisons? I mean, it's not like the discrepancies are conjured out of thin air and bear no relation to race, right?

As for immutable, I'm no biologist, but if memory serves, there exists some difference in the tendon structure of Blacks, which, among other things, enables them to perform better in activities requiring running, jumping, and other forms of physical performance. Explain to me how this difference is "mutable," short of some sort of surgical procedure.

So I reiterate my original post with some paraphrasing. There exist some racial differences which are not mutable (skeletal/musculature structure, as outlined above). Is it really so hard to believe that intellectual capacity could be like this as well?

Seriously, every single study (academic, government, private, military) conducted on this topic in the history of ever has resulted in a material IQ discrepancy between races. Don't even bother with the "define IQ or it's meaningless" drivel. It's like pornography, I may not be able to clearly define it, but it's pretty apparent when I see it. The fact of the matter is that Blacks (mean IQ 70-85), who have been given every opportunity for success over the past 2 generations consistently perform 2-3 standard deviations less than the group that has been discriminated against more than any other group in world history (Jews, mean IQ = 110-115).

Immutable? I think so.

Edited for link: http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/10/race-difference.html

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So your strategy is, get us to acknowledge discrepancies exist (LDO), point out the first discrepancy that comes to your mind, and then assert that that is the only relevant discrepancy. Clever.

[Taraz]

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I'm studying psychology and neuroscience right now, so forgive me if I trust my reading of the literature more than yours.


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So very much explained in one sentence. My hope is that in less than 20 years you discover exactly how much garbage you've been shoveled under the banner of academic literature. Best luck.

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This is baffling to me. "Ah, you're studying in the field, that explains why you don't get it."

I'm curious, where do you get your information on the subject if not from academic resources?

[vhawk01]

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I'm studying psychology and neuroscience right now, so forgive me if I trust my reading of the literature more than yours.


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So very much explained in one sentence. My hope is that in less than 20 years you discover exactly how much garbage you've been shoveled under the banner of academic literature. Best luck.

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This is baffling to me. "Ah, you're studying in the field, that explains why you don't get it."

I'm curious, where do you get your information on the subject if not from academic resources?

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The back of his napkin.

[kurto]

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The back of his napkin.

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[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Ha.

Perhaps its time that we refer to Splendour's intuition thread? It seems InTheDark values his intuition more then research or reason.

[vulturesrow]

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I've also seen people cross the street to avoid having to pass by a group of blacks. Oddly enough, I've never heard of anyone crossing the street to avoid a jew

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Bayes, IMO.