question from schneids' latest CR vid, BB defense with 44

[TheWunderkind]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] schneids

[Stinger88]

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Schneids, are you going to be making limit vids on a weekly basis? I would sign up, but I'm unsure of the fixed limit content. How many vids are for FL at this point?

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Schneids and Ian J are both making videos for Cardrunners now. I'm pretty sure there is one limit video per week scheduled, at least for October.

[jba]

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I basically think of it like this: I'm beating SB, and for 1 more SB there's a 1 in 6 chance he's gonna turn me. My flop checkraise is basically getting me 5:1 on my money. I'm ahead of the PFR more than 1 in 5 times right


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schneids thanks a ton for the posts in this thread, but I can't make sense of this part.

[Heisenb3rg]

Schneids , incredible posts man..

My current "connundrum" I guess you could say is very much related to what your saying.

1) Being too readable in "call down" situations
2) Countering people who c/r with ace high/air

I know you like to get agressive HU with ace high on occasion, but ive wondered which board textures are best to NOT do it with.

Clearly on boards like 933 and you have A8o, you probabily have the best hand vs a button opener, so it not only widens your play back range on these boards (get more action on your trips/pairs etc), but your doing it with the likely best hand.

The boards that im not sure how to handle are the
J95 type boards with a flushdraw.

Basically a board where I expect really light call downs, and very frequnt playbacks, so I WANT to get agressive with any pair.. Also a board where I have tons of semi bluffing hands.

With ace high on these boards I dont want to get agressive, because I know ill be rebluffed so frequently..
I dont want to fold because theres a good chance I still have the best hand vs a loose opener.
I dont want to call down because my hand is face open.

A couple ideas I had:

a) c/r A hi, call down to a flop 3-bet if most draws dont complete, fold to a turn raise.
b) c/c two streets with some good gutshot hands like KT, Q9 and fold to the 3-barrel, to encourage 3-barreling of garbage from opponent.

Still not satisifed tho..
Thoughts would be apreciated in regards to board texture.

[Schneids]

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I basically think of it like this: I'm beating SB, and for 1 more SB there's a 1 in 6 chance he's gonna turn me. My flop checkraise is basically getting me 5:1 on my money. I'm ahead of the PFR more than 1 in 5 times right


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schneids thanks a ton for the posts in this thread, but I can't make sense of this part.

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3BBs in PF, a bet and a call on the flop so we're up to 4BBs. If I checkraise and both call, that makes 5BBs for my 1BB invested on the checkraise. Basically I'm disregarding SB's hand and saying when he only check-calls, he has overcards. So then I'm saying, when making sense of the checkraise, because of the 5:1 my flop checkraise just was, I'm contending that it should make sense that I have a better hand than the CO at least 1 in 5 times, therefore making the checkraise alright, even if on the surface it seems spewey. In my OP though, I got a little brainjamed and that "1 in 6 times the SB turns me" should really be more like 1 in 8 (assuming a 6 outer, which is where my 6 I typed came from in my head). I'm not stating the same for CO since it's also possible the CO is already beating my 44.

[Schneids]

One last thing about this hand that might be obvious to some but is still point-worthy:

If you had 5h4h instead of 44, you would absolutely almost never checkraise this flop after a bet and a call.

The difference is pretty easy to notice: With 54, if you're behind CO, you likely have 5 outs instead of 2. So, say with 54, if you get 3-bet on the flop, or raised on the turn, you are basically going to have to see a river because of the pot size and the fact you have a likely 5 outer. With 44, you can fold to further aggression because your 2 outer isn't giving you odds to draw. Basically, checkraising with 54 would be setting yourself up for making a compounding error (one in which at each particular juncture, the play/odds are fine, however, adding up the total invested compared to your overall odds, it's a mistake).

After reading this, you might then say why checkraise 44 at all? Or even, why not checkraise this situation almost 100% of the time no matter what you have? Because 44 has showdown value and beats the high card bluff-catching call downs you might get (so it's for value, vs the field's range), and 44 is easy to dump if you receive further aggression (due to lack of outs).

[gehrig]

schneids that is really poor thinking sounds like u have wrapped ur head up in a bunch of toy rules that arent fundamentally sound

[Schneids]

Expand please.

[gehrig]

to simplify things say they always call on flop

on turn if u bet and someone calls u would rather have 54 because it has higher equity vs any range

if someone raises and u can profitbly call with 54 but not with 44 u would rather have 54 because profiting is good

its better to put in 3 bets with .100 effective equity in a big pot than 2 bets with .000 effective equity

[Joe Tall]

This single hand in this video may have the same effect as the Peter_Rus Rule thread did a few year ago on learning players. The games got great when it was applied constantly in the wrong places. It has already been seen in some games: See Here