Shorthanded O8 - Adjusting to maniacs or I play terrible

[Burdzthewurd]

Ok, I apologize in advance for this being a whining post, but I am getting absolutely ripped to shreds 3-5-handed at lowly 1/2 and 2/4 tables on a small site. Lots of guys pumping any 4 preflop, defending raises with K844, jamming naked flush draws and 8 lows and scooping, an absolute paradise if I wasn't having AA2s, low runs, etc. getting cracked by 66KJ.

I guess my question is am I playing far too tight (though it seems logically that I should if everyone else is playing any 4) and too aggressive (even though I should be punishing them for playing bad cards with usually no low potential) or is it just standard to go through 50-100BB downswings at low limit short-handed? Again, probably too vague and I don't have very effective stats (site isn't compatible with PT), though my win % at showdown is incredibly high over the last few thousand hands (in the mid 70 %'s), my % of hands won is way too low (around 27%, though that might just mean scooping) and winning 39% of the time I see the flop.

[wiseheart]

50-100BB downswing is very standard at 6max, especially if you continued to play when tables got down to 2-4 players.

Honestly, you need to just take a break, preferably at least a week, and come back playing fresh. I think that would help you more than analysing your play.

[ipp147]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess my question is am I playing far too tight (though it seems logically that I should if everyone else is playing any 4) and too aggressive (even though I should be punishing them for playing bad cards with usually no low potential) or is it just standard to go through 50-100BB downswings at low limit short-handed? Again, probably too vague and I don't have very effective stats (site isn't compatible with PT), though my win % at showdown is incredibly high over the last few thousand hands (in the mid 70 %'s), my % of hands won is way too low (around 27%, though that might just mean scooping) and winning 39% of the time I see the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Burd,

I get bloodbathed every now and again. A couple of things,

I think a 100BB downswing is pretty standard

I think its really easy to go on subtle tilt in O8 and make awful calldowns for half the pot.

I think you can loosen up in position but still play tight out of oop.

In terms of aggression I tend to limp alot more and limp behind a lot more with all but my premium holdings. This is obv slightly -ev preflop but reduces variance and gives me a chance to punish them later as the pot is smaller on the big street rounds.

I turn the check in position alot more.

[1MoreFish4U]

No time for an indepth reply but this quote from 'IPP' is really a key factor to avoid.

"I think its really easy to go on subtle tilt in O8 and make awful calldowns for half the pot."

[Borys313]

Most of your post ia bout bad hand selection preflop.
If you want to exploit this kind of leak stick to full-ring.
Cause short-handed picking good starters isnt so important.

[TxRedMan]

variance can be sick in SH LO8. it seems worse than it is because in a full game, i.e., nine or ten handed, variance is relatively low in contrast to other games. i dont know the numbers, but i'd say that 2,3, or 4 handed LO8 in an aggressive game has more variance than a 6 handed PLO game.

but like i said, it seems worse than it is because you're used to minimal variance.

a mistake a lot of players make in SH LO8 is losing patience and going to showdown with nearly any low and any high, which means they're always going to showdown.

a 100 BB swing SH would be like a 50 BB swing in a full game.

[TxRedMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Most of your post ia bout bad hand selection preflop.
If you want to exploit this kind of leak stick to full-ring.
Cause short-handed picking good starters isnt so important.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is good advice.

SH play is about postflop play.

i tell a lot of players, including myself, that many of them are going to be better off playing full ring, because they can't adjust to short handed play. dont look at it as a weakness, look at it as a +EV observation about your game. recognize it and avoid it. game selection FTW.

and if you want to work on your SH game, play micro stakes. i suggest rounding up 3-4 players from around here and playing together, so as to avoid some of the plays/players you see at micro stakes that you wont see anywhere else.

[wackjob]

SH O8 is my specialty - however I play 5/10-30/60.

SH O8 is a real beast of a game. The players I find to crush the fish the most are the thinking, super aggro LAGs, players which tend to be tough for me, but are predictable. These players are playing 40-50% of all hands SH, raising 18%+. These guys aren't "great" players, but they are "great" at killing the passive O8 fish, and they will eat up a "TAG" who can't make the short-handed adjustment. Common TAG errors moving to 6-max or shorter games from the 9/10 games:

-playing too tight preflop
-playing too loose postflop
-overplaying the big streets
-not value betting enough
-showing down too light (either 1 way, or both ways)

How do I know this stuff? I've learned the hard way. SH O8 is tough to learn and play well. If you crush full games, I'd suggest staying with them. If you really want to play short O8 games, I'd start low and slowly work your way up. Play 1 or 2 tables at a time max. Review any questionable hands from every session, post those where you aren't comfortable with your own analysis. Some general things you should be doing in SH vs full:

defend blinds more
call down lighter
value bet more
use/value position more
take good notes!

Hope some of this has helped.