Draw to the nuts live

[registrar]

£50 18-runner FO at a greyhound track. Mainly oldish gamblers. Americans reading, please note that old generally means LAG here in the UK.

3000 chips to start and due to late start we've dispensed with the first level so we're at the end of level one and blinds are 50/100. We are six-handed.

I have won three three pots, two without showdown. The first, I limped the SB with 56o, called an overbet on a A45 flop and checked it through to the river to beat KQs.

I have 4000 or so chips.

Villain has 3100. He has been as loose as the rest of the table. Won one pot, flopping a boat with TT and rapidly min-betting flop and turn before making a bigger bet on the river and then showing when the other guy folded. He's youngish.

I'm in BB with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and villain raises to 375, folds to me and I call. Normally, I'd drop this but the table is loose and plays flopped aces fairly transparently.

Flop Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

My move?

[greg44]

check raise all in

you got a flop to your hand and need to make a play at the pot. Next best play is folding, however, if your going to fold on this flop then you shouldn't be playing A2s in the first place.

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
check raise all in

you got a flop to your hand and need to make a play at the pot. Next best play is folding, however, if your going to fold on this flop then you shouldn't be playing A2s in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm certainly not planning to check-fold. The question is whether to lead or to raise.

Edit: I can check call as well. I never think of that.

[namespace]

He's aggressive but seems to be betting real low.
I've played with guys like this before and I either prefer to raise them with air, or turn into a calling station and raise the river.

Here we are drawing and since villain likes to bet low he'll price us in on each street.

I play pure odds on this one and turn into a calling station unless I hit, then I raise the river.

Edit:
I mis-read what you wrote. He just did this that one time.


I definitely don't lead. I either check-call or check-jam depending on how big his bet is.

[aplunk]

1. there's no way you're ahead on that flop

2. your hand is good with 2 cards to come

3. if you miss on the turn your hand loses half it's value

so i think the right play must be...

check/raise the flop, and make it a big raise - overbet the pot

if he checks behind then...

if turn is heart i prolly bet around 1/2 pot - but i'd be looking for reads to help me know how to get the most out of him

if turn is A - check/call

if turn is blank check/fold or check/call if he mistakenly underbets

if we get to the river we've got similar possibilities.

[mastr]

checkshove if you can if he minbets juts take your cards and try to hit

[greg44]

by leading your giving him good fold equity to move all in on you which is why I like making the last raise here. Either he has top pair and your getting all your money in or he has a middle pocket pair or a jack and folds. By check raising, you get the continuation bets from those hands that will fold (like 88 99 TT etc...). BY leading you gain no value from those hands and are then put to a tough decision that you probably will have to call anyway.

Check call is awful imo. Villain has 3100 behind which is a perfect stack size to C/R all in because after he bets 500 you have great fold equity w/ your draw.

[registrar]

I like leading the flop because he folds a lot of his pre-flop range and, I would suggest, very rarely moves in without a better hand. If I lead the flop, it looks like a made hand protecting itself. This is live and I would suggest that they are likely to move in less. Also, I think my body language would have revealed that I liked the flop, because I did and I'm a tellbox. Which is why I think he checked behind. "Check is good" with a hasty nod.

Turn is 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet 400, he insta minraises to 800.

[holdemft]

Call, you still have the nut flush draw, and an inside straight as well if a K drops. sure if he's already got the AK, you're only getting the chop on the straight, but I wouldn't worry about that because I think you will need a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or K here in order to win anyway. Looks like Vil is holding 2P/89 or a mugging at the scare card.

[aplunk]

[ QUOTE ]
I like leading the flop because he folds a lot of his pre-flop range and, I would suggest, very rarely moves in without a better hand. If I lead the flop, it looks like a made hand protecting itself. This is live and I would suggest that they are likely to move in less. Also, I think my body language would have revealed that I liked the flop, because I did and I'm a tellbox. Which is why I think he checked behind. "Check is good" with a hasty nod.

Turn is 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet 400, he insta minraises to 800.

[/ QUOTE ]

leading the flop is good if he folds, or if he raises and you can get all the chips in.
leading the flop is horrid if he calls. You will likely miss on the turn and be in a terrible spot. What's your plan then?

also - why are you betting that turn?

as played i call his min-raise on the turn, obviously