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#11
10-09-2007, 10:03 PM
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Re: Two gross PF spots with Queens that make me want to chop off my he
Im shoving over that 6x UTG raise in hand #2 no doubt.
Hand #1 I'd probably shove too, although I'd consider folding for a few seconds. Edit: I might just stop and go on hand #1, although that sh*t dont work too well anymore. 
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#14
10-10-2007, 12:52 AM
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Re: Two gross PF spots with Queens that make me want to chop off my he
Hand 2, he's told us we're not crushed and he's never getting away from it, jam and smile with glee.
Hand 1 is a better fold argument, but stack says shove.
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#15
10-10-2007, 01:06 AM
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Re: Two gross PF spots with Queens that make me want to chop off my head.
For anyone who thinks that shoving #1 is easier than shoving #2 or that they are both equal, you are wrong. Here is why in no particular order:
#1 is a 22r, #2 is an $11r In #1 we have way more information that says we are behind. Think about what your opponent has seen. He saw an UTG raise and decided he wanted to make a big re-raise anyway. In #2 our villian simply raised UTG. This can be a wide range of hands, much wider than in #1. In #1, pot odds are more in our favor as the pot is larger. In #2, villain made an extra large PF raise. This often indicates a hand that doesn't want to see a flop. AKA, Not KK or AA. So yeah. Folding #1 is way more reasonable than folding #2. Although shoving may be correct in both.
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#16
10-10-2007, 04:03 AM
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Re: Two gross PF spots with Queens that make me want to chop off my he
#1 - Without a read there's no way i'm folding. Getting 3:2 on your stack you're almost exactly neutral ev if he's AK/QQ+ and there's no way i'm giving an unknown that tight of a range.
#2 - Fistpump shove while quietly laughing at him for such a ridiculous raise with a range that is sooooo heavily weighted to JJ.
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