Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
"I've owned so many "top" live pros before with reverse tells it's really not that hard to do and not ridiculous to think that it would work on even the top pros. All live players put so much stock in their ability to read people and just assume some internet player can't reverse tell. I've tricked many a live player that was considered a nasty people-reader with some of the most simple reverse tells. They say something like "you look a bit nervous there" when you have the nuts and you subtly swallow/gulp. Make your hands shake while you're bluffing. There's tons of tricks and they work. I dont' know about PA or Kenny in particular but it's worked on tons of other "great live players" so I have no reason to doubt it would work on them also (or at least confuse them enough that they can't rely on your "tells" when you're playing against them)"

Ariel, I partially agree with you but for the most part live players are able to make an good assessment about the credibility of particular tells. High reliability tells relate to the adrenal response and are difficult or impossible to fake. One cannot pretend to have low adrenal levels in the body when they actually have high levels, and vice versa. Voice constriction, pupil dilation, high pulse rate, finger shaking, jaw/neck tightening, etc, are evidence of high adrenal levels (and usually a strong hand) and these things are very very difficult to fake. As a side note, some people just have a naturally muted adrenal response --- these people will find the transition to live play easier. People who have lively nerves will find the transition tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm not trying to argue tells are entirely irrelevant i just wanted to note that people way overrate how much information live players can reliably get from tells and that live players aren't some gods that can just figure out what you have by looking at you: they're very fallible and their live edge isn't so supernatural that it overrides the lack of fundamentals you see in a lot of live players.

[KamiKatze]

[ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm trying to argue tells are entirely irrelevant i just didn't want to note that people way overrate how much information live players can reliably get from tells and add that live players are gods that can just figure out what you have by looking at you: they're never fallible and their live edge is so supernatural that it overrides the lack of fundamentals you see in a lot of internet players.

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm trying to argue tells are entirely irrelevant i just didn't want to note that people way overrate how much information live players can reliably get from tells and add that live players are gods that can just figure out what you have by looking at you: they're never fallible and their live edge is so supernatural that it overrides the lack of fundamentals you see in a lot of internet players.

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

[/ QUOTE ]

first off, you messed up by not changing irrelevant to relevant. second off, this might be the most asinine FYP I've seen in a long time.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm trying to argue tells are entirely irrelevant i just didn't want to note that people way overrate how much information live players can reliably get from tells and add that live players are gods that can just figure out what you have by looking at you: they're never fallible and their live edge is so supernatural that it overrides the lack of fundamentals you see in a lot of internet players.

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

[/ QUOTE ]

[john voight]

maybe, online players grind b/c they dont have any money. and live HSNL players dont play anymore b/c they are set for life.

hell there is only 1 player i see every night sitting on FT and thats Urindanger, no one will even play him. and i have seen him on TV, so i would say he is more of a live player. u guys think phil hellmuth got to where he was by playing the easy guys? no. He played w/ the best and beat them. we see him own MTTs as well in WSOP time and time again.

We saw chris ferguson play n HSP last season. never played a cash game hand in his life, but w/ reads, and good fundamental knowledge, he owned thet abel in the few hands he played (something aba didnt do).

imo there is a simple fact here: the best players are all live b/c they play with the best. and now they dont need to play anymore, b/c they have won so much money.

gg

i'd take hellmuth and fergueson over any two online "poker players" any day.

[john voight]

[ QUOTE ]
"I've owned so many "top" live pros before with reverse tells it's really not that hard to do and not ridiculous to think that it would work on even the top pros. All live players put so much stock in their ability to read people and just assume some internet player can't reverse tell. I've tricked many a live player that was considered a nasty people-reader with some of the most simple reverse tells. They say something like "you look a bit nervous there" when you have the nuts and you subtly swallow/gulp. Make your hands shake while you're bluffing. There's tons of tricks and they work. I dont' know about PA or Kenny in particular but it's worked on tons of other "great live players" so I have no reason to doubt it would work on them also (or at least confuse them enough that they can't rely on your "tells" when you're playing against them)"

Ariel, I partially agree with you but for the most part live players are able to make a good assessment about the credibility of particular tells. High reliability tells relate to the adrenal response and are difficult or impossible to fake. One cannot pretend to have low adrenal levels in the body when they actually have high levels, and vice versa. Voice constriction, pupil dilation, high pulse rate, finger shaking, jaw/neck tightening, etc, are evidence of high adrenal levels (and usually a strong hand) and these things are very very difficult to fake. As a side note, some people just have a naturally muted adrenal response --- these people will find the transition to live play easier. People who have lively nerves will find the transition tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp