Sniper

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
The pro-sniper camp may have more to say, and I welcome their comments.



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What is that I hear...

[JaredL]

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This whole process is rediculous

You guys clammored for a response and he gave you one. He basically said "you are right, I was wrong" but of course that's not enough. Now you want details on how he'll mod in the future, which is impossible to do completely out of any context. Not that I'm even convinced that anything he says will make people satisfied.

You guys act like you've never made any mistakes in your modding during the past 6 months. I think all three choices were bad ones and I hope that I wouldn't make the same errors, but at the same time I hope that when I do make "an error" that I'm not witch-hunted like this.

Some of you don't think his other contributions should matter at all in this process. I completely disagree. Other contributions to 2+2 show a committment to the betterment of the site as a whole and indicate to me a willingness to learn and grow for that end.

Then there's this whole issue of timely response, which to me is a clear indication of the excessive zeal in this spot.

Nothing I say is going to change what people think, but it needed to be said.

[/ QUOTE ]

The main problem with Sniper is not the completely ridiculous and bizarre mod decisions, but that he doesn't listen to logic, makes arguments that are completely idiotic, never budges, misquotes Mat and Ryan to further his own stuff, etc. Also as noted by someone he is always the quickest to wag his finger at others that don't follow whatever rules or procedures have been in place. Often in these cases he's in the wrong. In general he adds a lot of noise and makes it more difficult to give and get feedback in this forum.

He didn't make mistakes in these cases, they just exposed his standard operating procedure. Like others, I have made mistakes. Like everyone but sniper, my errors were rectified quickly and nothing came of it because I was able to admit that I had made a mistake and hashed it out with Ryan.

Sniper in the past has shown that he will say whatever it takes to further his aims and protect his ass. With Degen he made a lot of arguments for degen because he was a poster in the finance forum. When that didn't fly he moved on to the argument that degen was an advertiser so it was more complicated. In the other thread, Mat made a post saying that he really wanted Sniper's input. When daryn noted that he hadn't posted yet, sniper claimed that he had been busy outside 2+2. When it was demonstrated that this was false, he claimed that he had been busy reading thousands of posts in the mod forum to review the situation.

The examples above are just a couple that obviously recently come to mind. In both cases we have sniper simply saying what is necesary to cover his own ass or further his own personal situation, even if at odds with the good of the forums at large. In the OP of this thread, he has basically done more of the same. He had to admit that what he'd done is wrong. He pointed to a few things that are 100% obviously wrong.

When someone is in a situation where they HAVE to apologize and they do, I don't see what has changed as a result. As I said, the problem isn't the specific things he claimed were wrong actions on his part, it's more general.

Jared

[Berge20]

[ QUOTE ]

In the other thread, Mat made a post saying that he really wanted Sniper's input. When daryn noted that he hadn't posted yet, sniper claimed that he had been busy outside 2+2. When it was demonstrated that this was false, he claimed that he had been busy reading thousands of posts in the mod forum to review the situation.

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See, to me this just really sums up the totally different view point I am coming from. You bump a ~3 month old post on Wednesday, which originally asked Mods to comment on Sniper's problems. I didn't see it until about 24 hours later and it seemed to me that we were rehashing old stuff again. Then over two days it turned into what I view as a lynch mob until Mat started the new thread late Friday.

I don't know when Sniper read both threads. It took me a fricken hour to go back through the first one (and links) just to get a better feel for what all the ruckuss was about after I originally saw it and then made time to go back.

There are tons of times I'm posting/browsing 2+2 but don't visit this forum. I try to get in here and to ATF when I can, but it doesn't always happen. Maybe that's what was going on with Sniper this week with the original post and then with the new one this weekend.

You guys are so frothing at the mouth that you are having zero patience. How you expect to make thoughtful decisions when in that state is beyond me. The guy took less than 48 hours to make his post after Mat essentially asked him to and maybe even less in reality from when he saw it. Plus he PM'd Mat about putting together a lengthy and detailed response earlier.

Nation's post in Sniper's response thread just sums up this lack of patience IMO.

7:19
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sniper,

did you or did you not give degen information from the mod forum?

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7:24
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if he doesn't squash this today, there should be zero chance of him being green at the end of today. im tired of these games.

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7:35
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what the [censored], there is no excuse for this delay. sniper is deliberately dodging my question about leaking mod forum info to degen. i feel like i'm taking crazy pills.

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Heaven forbid somone steps away from the discussion for 15 minutes. Sure, it's a legitimate question that Sniper should answer, but this sort of mentality is all I've seen since Wendesday.

Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way, but I find this amazing. You guys won't be happy with anything short of his removal and this entire process is not the thoughtful, correct way to go about it IMO.

[nation]

berge,

sniper just dropped his apology on the mod forum. you really think its not weird that instead of reading and responding for a bit, he takes off until now? if someone was talking about degreening me, i wouldnt just take off especially when i knew i was getting flak from people for leaving the discussion already.

[Berge20]

Hell, I don't know what I would do nation.

Depends largely on what I've got going on outside 2+2 probably and the mood I'm in. One could sit there and see what gets stirred up and try to rapid fire respond or you could take a break and answer thoughtfully 4 hours later. The answer to your question isn't going to change.

[Jim Kuhn]

[ QUOTE ]

This whole process is rediculous

You guys clammored for a response and he gave you one. He basically said "you are right, I was wrong" but of course that's not enough. Now you want details on how he'll mod in the future, which is impossible to do completely out of any context. Not that I'm even convinced that anything he says will make people satisfied.

You guys act like you've never made any mistakes in your modding during the past 6 months. I think all three choices were bad ones and I hope that I wouldn't make the same errors, but at the same time I hope that when I do make "an error" that I'm not witch-hunted like this.

Some of you don't think his other contributions should matter at all in this process. I completely disagree. Other contributions to 2+2 show a committment to the betterment of the site as a whole and indicate to me a willingness to learn and grow for that end.

Then there's this whole issue of timely response, which to me is a clear indication of the excessive zeal in this spot.

Nothing I say is going to change what people think, but it needed to be said.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with a lot of what Berge20 has stated. I thought the sniper response was well thought out and to the point. He pointed out his mistakes, said he was sorry and he would utilize it as a learning experience for future decision. I don't think he could have said it better and it was more than I expected.

As for the lag or timeframe for the response I do not see a problem. If he was a full time paid employee I could see telling him to work on nothing but researching his past decisions and a response. But as a volunteer employee many of us also have full time jobs, families, homes and hobbies that consume much of our time. I thought it was fine that he took a few days to go back over his modding history and draft a response. It is possible he even wanted time to sleep on his response and decisions to ensure he was reacting in the manner a clear mind should. It is not like a couple of days are going to matter much in the history of the internet.

I think Mat made an excellent decision. I think sniper needs a little break from the mod forum and a few of the mods need a break from sniper. Hopefully the end result will be an even better long range environment for 2+2. Mat stated he was stressed out and I can only imagine how stressed out sniper must have been. I think sniper really tries to do what is best for the forums but he just thinks differently than some of the other mods.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[El Diablo]

Jim,

You seem like a really nice guy.

[Jim Kuhn]

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Jim,

You seem like a really nice guy.

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El Diablo,

Thank you for those kind words. I hope my sarcasm detector is working correctly and I am correct in thinking you are not still being sarcastic! :&gt I do try to treat others right and am big on letting people know when they are 'on probation or getting their last chance'.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[El Diablo]

Jim,

Nah, I think you likely really are a nice guy. I think the same of Mat. I disagree with both of you on a number of things, how we perceive others, and various other subjective matters of judgement. But I think both of you seem to be really nice guys.

[Mike Haven]

A quick snapshot poll to gauge current feelings, without everyone having to rewrite stuff: