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  #51  
Old 11-28-2007, 04:54 PM
Felix_Nietzsche Felix_Nietzsche is offline
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Default Re: Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

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wtf? why do you want to turn a reasonable society into one that you claimed to represent that of the enemy?


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Cruelty is the only solution to this problem.....
Diplomacy alone will NEVER work....

Have you not seen excerpts of the text books books that the Arabs use to 'educate' their children? The anti-semitism they inject into the minds of their children would make it clear why these children will grow up hating Israel for the rest of their lives. They even use a "Mickey Mouse" character as a teaching tool to spread hatred in the minds of the palestinian children. An entire 2+2 topic could be made just on the palestinian 'education' system. The Nazis had their Hitler Youth to teach hatred towards the untermensch. The palestinians have taken these tactics and 'improved' upon them. The palestinian children of today will be the palestinian monsters of tomorrow...
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  #52  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:06 PM
Felix_Nietzsche Felix_Nietzsche is offline
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Default Re: A Jimmy Carter Peace.....

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But nice try blaming a Democrat from 28 years ago for our current foreign aid program.

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Jimmy Carter is most responsible for the terrorist theocracy ruling Iran today. His undermining of the Shah was an act of gross incompetance and stupidity. The world would be a much more peaceful place if the Shah's regime was still in power keeping those religious nuts under his thumb. Instead there is a good chance a nuclear war will occur between Iran, Israel, and the USA. The muslims don't properly fear a nuclear war because they believe they will have 72 virgins waiting for them.... We have not seen the worst of Jimmy Carter's idiocy on Iran...

The Repubs deserve some responsibility for the Taliban.
But even in retrospect I think funding the Afghan insurgents was the proper play to teach those bastard Russian commies a lesson for their intervention in Vietnam. Payback is a bitch and the Russians reaped the karma they sowed. The only mistake the Repubs made was not funding the Northern Alliance to help them defeat the Taliban after the Soviets left Afghanistan. But hindsight is 20/20. No one knew the Taliban would become so troublesome to other nations outside their borders. But undermining an American ally like the Shah of iran was the epitome of stupidity....
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  #53  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:21 PM
Zygote Zygote is offline
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Default Re: Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wtf? why do you want to turn a reasonable society into one that you claimed to represent that of the enemy?


[/ QUOTE ]
Cruelty is the only solution to this problem.....
Diplomacy alone will NEVER work....

Have you not seen excerpts of the text books books that the Arabs use to 'educate' their children? The anti-semitism they inject into the minds of their children would make it clear why these children will grow up hating Israel for the rest of their lives. They even use a "Mickey Mouse" character as a teaching tool to spread hatred in the minds of the palestinian children. An entire 2+2 topic could be made just on the palestinian 'education' system. The Nazis had their Hitler Youth to teach hatred towards the untermensch. The palestinians have taken these tactics and 'improved' upon them. The palestinian children of today will be the palestinian monsters of tomorrow...

[/ QUOTE ]

yes i've seen all of this. jewish children are subject to a lot of this non sense too. if israel gave back the territories jewish terrorist could become a problem, for example, because many are as fanatically indoctrinated. most of jewish fanatics do their bidding through the military though while the other side does this through less formal organizations. if they lost military support i think youd see some serious jewish resistance groups.

the point is the education like this increases the more both sides feed each others hatred. Israel should have the moral ground by having the moral ground, not by destroying it. How can israel claim to be the good guy when they dont practice wat they preach. Why does israel hold entire lebanon responsible for the crimes a few, isnt this what terrorists do? why does israel hold land and do nothing with it but deprive and enrage the lives of millions? why have they continued land expansion in undeserved territory rather than maintaining the deserved territory?

from what i can see from your analysis is not to send arabs into the distance but rather to start exterminating all of them.
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  #54  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:26 PM
Felix_Nietzsche Felix_Nietzsche is offline
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Default Re: Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

http://www.peacefaq.com/campdavid.html
This site has some decent examples of Egypt's violations of the Camp David Accords.
"After Egyptian dictator Anwar Sadat's death, his successor Hosni Mubarak discovered that Egypt could ignore its peace treaty obligations to Israel with impunity. Sadat had signed over 50 agreements and amendments to the Camp David Accords, which spelled out in great detail normalization of relations with Israel. These included trade, tourism, science, cultural and other attributes of peaceful relations. The late Menachem Begin, of blessed memory, fully believed that his sacrifice of Sinai, with its air bases and oil, was worth the inauguration of peaceful relations with the most important country in the Arab world.
With every passing year, it became clearer to Mubarak that the Israelis were too timid to protest Egyptian violations. It also became clear that America would continue to supply aid in the billions of dollars to Egypt, despite Egypt's obvious violations of their most solemn commitments to both President Jimmy Carter and Begin.

From this experience Mubarak devised the "Mubarak gambit," which sets out the principle that an Arab country can promise Israel peace and full normalization as a negotiating tactic in order to force an Israeli withdrawal from territory. Then after the territory is recovered, the Arab country can ignore the normalization part of any agreement."

- Bernard J. Shapiro, in The Caucus Current, October 1994
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  #55  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:28 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

[ QUOTE ]
Why does israel hold entire lebanon responsible for the crimes a few, isnt this what terrorists do?

[/ QUOTE ]


Your son is in your house shooting at mine. You won't do anything because you say you fear he'll shoot you. So I come through your door and you object to my travelling over your property to get to your son. Then when I do so anyway you object to my shooting your son and think I should use other means. So to me you are responsible to some degree. And it doesn't matter if you do have a legitimate fear your son will shoot you if you intervene, because he's *your* son. It's your house and you should keep it in order if you don't like the means others use. Note this all started because *your* son was shooting into *my* property.
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  #56  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:33 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

[ QUOTE ]
why have they continued land expansion in undeserved territory rather than maintaining the deserved territory?

[/ QUOTE ]

They won a war which they didn't morally initiate in 1967 since the Arabs were planning to attack first. And they won another war in 1973 when they did subject themselves to allowing the Arabs to attack first even though they knew it was coming. So they were morally in the right in those wars and took land in reparation for the wrongs against them. Starting and losing wars have consequences but the Arabs and their apologists want to be able to strike Israel and then go back to the status quo when they get stomped instead of having some permanent consequence meted out to them in punishment. Pretty sweet deal if Israel is sucker enough to go for it.
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  #57  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:36 PM
Felix_Nietzsche Felix_Nietzsche is offline
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Default Re: Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

[ QUOTE ]
yes i've seen all of this. jewish children are subject to a lot of this non sense too.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yikes....moral equivalism alert!
Any Israeli propaganda is not even on the same map with what the palestinians do to teach their children. This is of course assumes I accept your premise (which I do not). Your statement is like saying a person who starts a schoolyard fight is equally guilty as a mass murdering serial killer. Both commit violence. And "murder is just a common assault with unfortunate consequences". Yes? (a quote from Horace Rumpole, the world's greatest defense lawyer).


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Why does israel hold entire lebanon responsible for the crimes a few, isnt this what terrorists do?

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No...terrorism is the policy of INTENTIONALLY targeting civilians. The palestinians are notorius for setting up mortars in civilian neighborhoods. When Israeli fires back, then the palestinians exploit the deaths of civilians which they are primarily responsible for...

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from what i can see from your analysis is not to send arabs into the distance but rather to start exterminating all of them.

[/ QUOTE ]
Expelling all the Arabs in Israel will be sufficient....
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  #58  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:36 PM
Zygote Zygote is offline
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Default Re: Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why does israel hold entire lebanon responsible for the crimes a few, isnt this what terrorists do?

[/ QUOTE ]


Your son is in your house shooting at mine. You won't do anything because you say you fear he'll shoot you. So I come through your door and you object to my travelling over your property to get to your son. Then when I do so anyway you object to my shooting your son and think I should use other means. So to me you are responsible to some degree. And it doesn't matter if you do have a legitimate fear your son will shoot you if you intervene, because he's *your* son. It's your house and you should keep it in order if you don't like the means others use. Note this all started because *your* son was shooting into *my* property.

[/ QUOTE ]

your analogy isnt close. Israel never attempted to go after those soley responsible. They only gave people the chance to object to going after them entirely. They had no purpose in going to the extent they did and punishing endless non-responsible individuals.

this is as stupid as placing sanctions on iran and holding the entire iranian nation responsible for the crimes of a few.
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  #59  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:46 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

[ QUOTE ]
this is as stupid as placing sanctions on iran and holding the entire iranian nation responsible for the crimes of a few.

[/ QUOTE ]


But with Iran we aren't talking about the actions of a few isolated citizens even, but those of the *government*. And it's *their* government so if the Iranians don't want the consequences that come from the actions of *their* government then they should do something about. And the fact that they would put their lives in jeopardy to do so isn't *our* problem.
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  #60  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:49 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why does israel hold entire lebanon responsible for the crimes a few, isnt this what terrorists do?

[/ QUOTE ]


Your son is in your house shooting at mine. You won't do anything because you say you fear he'll shoot you. So I come through your door and you object to my travelling over your property to get to your son. Then when I do so anyway you object to my shooting your son and think I should use other means. So to me you are responsible to some degree. And it doesn't matter if you do have a legitimate fear your son will shoot you if you intervene, because he's *your* son. It's your house and you should keep it in order if you don't like the means others use. Note this all started because *your* son was shooting into *my* property.

[/ QUOTE ]

your analogy isnt close. Israel never attempted to go after those soley responsible. They only gave people the chance to object to going after them entirely. They had no purpose in going to the extent they did and punishing endless non-responsible individuals.

[/ QUOTE ]


Lebanon has a choice. They can either put *their* house in order, or Israel will do so. If they can't or won't *for whatever reason*, then they shouldn't bitch about the means that Israel uses.

And you are acting as if Israel can surgically strike at Hamas which is a large organization and one that purposely locates its resources in centers of population to deter attack. You are blaming the victim and it's disgusting.
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