Israel's Attack on Lebanon and Hezbollah

[siegfriedandroy]

who did Israel attack at the airport? civilians, hezbollah agents? (just trying to get my facts strait)

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As the news reports, Israel in response to Hezbollah attacks on Israeli soil has attacked not only Hezbollah positions, but also the Beirut international airport. Of course Lebanon is protesting mightlily and spouting threats of retaliation that it can't back up.

Lebanon purports to be a sovereign country, and of course only recently has rid itself of Syrian troops. But it cannot maintain that Israel's attacks are wrong when it fails to act against Hezbollah itself. When Israel invaded in 1982 it was during the middle of the Lebanese civil war when there wasn't an effective central government. But now there is. So that means they are responsible for attacks launched from their soil.

If they tacitly support such attacks on Israel, then of course they have to expect to pay the price. But even if they don't, it is their responsibility to deal with stopping those attacks and if they are unable or unwilling, then again they have to expect Israeli reprisals. And that is going to include the logistical pipeline Hezbollah uses which includes the airport.

So either Lebanon needs to take responsiblity if it supports the Hezbollah attacks on Israel, or take action against Hezbollah itself to stop them. And if it lacks the military means to do so, then then Israel is going to do it for them, with more loss of civilian lives than if the Lebanese government took responsiblity for setting its own house in order.

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[Sniper]

The Israel Defense Forces renewed its ground offensive in south Lebanon on Sunday morning. A Nachal division, backed by armored troops, began operating in southern Lebanon, heading toward the village of Taibeh.

Also Sunday, IDF troops clashed with Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon, north of Dovev. Hezbollah fighters sustained injuries in the clashes.

[Sniper]

Olmert: Israel not in a hurry to agree to cease-fire until it achieves its goals (AP)

[Cyrus]

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I do not know if it is true that Israel has racked up hundreds of civilian deaths but I will assume it is.
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So what? Lets say we knew for an absolute fact that Israel was specifically targeting civilians to terrorize and kill. Would it not be fair to say that Israel at worst is simply engaging in the same tactics as its enemy who we know for a fact is specifically targeting civilians to terrorize and kill them?
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If both sides agree to use the same tactics then let them fight it out.

[/ QUOTE ] By the same token, we are not supposed to be horrified when a terrorist organisation explodes a bomb in a Tel Aviv supermarket or when a suicide bomber detonates himself in the middle of a Haifa disco.

So, I disagree. If we are to remain different from the other animals, if we indeed do not accept "the natural laws" last seen propagated on this Earth by angry men in black uniforms, we must protest the barbarism of others, of any others.

I will also remark that your term "agree" can only be used metaphorically. Each side unilaterally justifies its atrocities; they have not "agreed" to anything. The other side's atrocities are proclaimed as such; our atrocities we find a way to justify and excuse and call by a different name.

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There is no morality in war and civilian death tallys are silly.

[/ QUOTE ] In order precisely to halt the descent into such an abyss and hold fast to higher humanistic principles, there are various agreements between nations, eg GCP, however idealistically or utopically formulated, which try to claim for Man a somewhat less savage mode of conduct.

Note that your mode of thinking practically excuses each and every atroctiy committed by terrorists against Jews and Israel. It reduces every moral argument to a quest about who's stronger and who's weaker.

[Sniper]

On Saturday, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice returned to the Middle East to try to negotiate an end to hostilities in the region.

But her task became more difficult Sunday when Lebanon said it would not welcome Rice to Beirut for negotiations unless there was an immediate cease-fire.

"There is no place on this sad morning for any discussion other than an immediate and unconditional ceasefire as well as an international investigation into the Israeli massacres in Lebanon now," Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora told a news conference in Beirut.

After the announcement, Rice cancelled her planned visit.

[Cyrus]

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There is no morality in war and civilian death tallys are silly. ALL militaries and countries will slaughter mass numbers of civilians when they deem such actions neccessary. All there is in war is measures and counter-measures.

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I have typed and erased 4 differently worded responses to your post. I'm going with this 5th one:

I disagree. Decide for yourself why.

[/ QUOTE ]Let me just say that it warms my heart to see your disagreement.

I know "all is not lost". But I sure like to see it again and again! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Sniper]

There were two incidents of firing close to UNIFIL positions from the Israeli side in the area of Marwahin and Deir Mimess in the past 24 hours. At the same time, it was reported that Hizbollah fired from the vicinity of six UN positions at Tibnin (2), At Tiri, Beit Yahoun, and Alma Ash Shab (2). UNIFIL “strongly protested all these incidents to the Israeli and Lebanese authorities respectively,” the mission said.

July 2006 UNIFIL Deployment MAP (PDF)

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi JMan:

I actually think there might be another reason. I don't care what the election results may have been because I don't see how you can have real democracy when the political parties each have an army that is currently shooting at their political opponents. So one possible reason for the Hamas victory is that they were a little better at intimidating the voting population then their political opponents. What are your thoughts?

Best wishes,
Mason

[ACPlayer]

Election fraud is a way of life in Asia (some say in the US too!).

On the other hand a little input on the Palestinian elections.

[Howard Beale]

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There is no morality in war and civilian death tallys are silly. ALL militaries and countries will slaughter mass numbers of civilians when they deem such actions neccessary. All there is in war is measures and counter-measures.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have typed and erased 4 differently worded responses to your post. I'm going with this 5th one:

I disagree. Decide for yourself why.

[/ QUOTE ]Let me just say that it warms my heart to see your disagreement.

I know "all is not lost". But I sure like to see it again and again! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Your reply above is well put. I would like to think that I could've done the same if the posters' remarks hadn't made me so upset. I would also like to think that it is the strong emotions brought about by current events that made him speak rashly and that in some calmer moment he may reconsider his thoughts.

Here is an interesting thing, I find. I just spent a fair amount of time typing out and erasing a few more further thoughts on the matters at hand. I'm finding it hard to express exactly what I want to say and be clearly understood. So it's come down to this: I hate what's going on (I hope it ends soon) but I still think it's necessary.